[extropy-chat] hope you can comprehend

[jeffrey davis]

On 5/20/06, BillK <pharos at gmail.com> wrote:


> I also wanted to criticise Jeff's post, especially the dismissive comment
> about 'Legions incapable of logic' applied to anyone outside of the very,
> very few signed up to cryonics.


Ummmm.  Bill, no need to be shy.  Yes, I have been known to get pissy (I
usually regret it afterward, except when metaphorically grinding my heel
into the occasional transient Fascisti looking to settle in to the list),
but if you stay civil, I'll do the same.  Though I'll abandon the discussion
if you abandon logic.

Yes, my comment was dismissive, but it wasn't "applied to anyone outside of
the very, very few signed up to cryonics."  Rather it was applied to well,
those folks who don't care to think about what they believe, stick by their
beliefs fiercely, and then energetically oppose new ideas out of blind
loyalty to their own unexamined beliefs.  The legions who believe without
thinking, or without thinking very hard.  Don't they deserve a bit of
disdain?  Should they be babied, coddled, pandered to, even as they actively
obstruct human progress?

In the absence of any proof to verify spiritual beliefs -- the soul, the
Divine spark, the astral body, god, etc -- materialism remains the only
source of verifyable truth -- maybe I should say "usable" truth.

Your brain is a lump of material.  This lump of stuff is wholly responsible
for the awesome fact of your existence, consciousness, and uniqueness,
though heart, lungs, guts, bone, and skin are vital as well.  Your
perception and your persona, however are mediated by your brain.

To keep the Authentic You going strong, against "the thousand natural shocks
that flesh is heir to", you have to keep that lump of flesh (your brain) in
good shape.  When the support system (your body) breaks down, you're faced
with options.  Rotting and burning don't cut it.  Freezing is far better.
What could be simpler, more logically obvious?

It may or may not work.  The future is iffy.  But the logic, the logic is
blindingly crystal.



> But then I thought that on extropy-chat, being signed up to cryonics is
> like having the membership ticket of the 'true believer', so I had better
> keep my mouth shut.  ;)
>
> However, as Robert has stepped in (once again) where angels fear to tread,


Regarding Robert's comments, this part:

"2. If you have sufficient information about the person, e.g. biographies,
autobiographies, tax records, credit card histories, films of lectures ( e.g.
Feynman), etc. you have a pretty good idea of "who" or "how" they expressed
themselves."

just doesn't work for me, as a basis for restoring the Authentic You.  And
while there is theory that information in the universe can never really be
destroyed, recovering it from the Plank matrix or the
embalmed/rotted corporeal remains seems much more challenging than from the
LN2 preserved remains.


I'll add a few comments.
>
> As Robert says, signing up to cryonics is making a financial decision that
> this is the best way to allocate a *minimum* of 80,000 USD (head) or 150,000
> USD (whole body). If you already have this much spare cash lying around in
> petty cash and you have already invested in / provided
> for everything else, then this point is not significant.


The cost of suspension from CI is 28K + the cost to get the patient/remains
to their Michigan facility.

But for most people, whether via life insurance or other methods, cryonics
> has to be selected in preference to many other possibilities. Donating to
> other organisations, e.g. SIAI to speed up FAI, providing for family,
> bequests to charities, etc.
>
> Alcor makes the point that for younger people the life insurance premiums
> should be smaller and easier to fund. It should also be pointed out though
> that younger people are the least likely to require cryonics. Other
> developments like life-extending tech, nano medicine and even the
> Singularity are likely to arrive well within the next 40 to 50 years. And if
> you die prematurely in a flaming car wreck, then cryonics won't help.
>
> Most scientists say that revival of a cryonics case is not possible in any
> near future technology. You need 'magic' nano medicine before you can make a
> case for this. But if you can live long enough, via interim life-extension
> tech, until nano medicine arrives then you have no need
> for cryonics.


And we'd all like to see things move quickly enough so that we can all enjoy
that circumstance. Yah?

Best, Jeff Davis

   "Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
                           Ray Charles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20060520/f6c6ca39/attachment.html>