[extropy-chat] off topic

[spike]

bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bradbury
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] off topic


> Spike, I'd like to know particularly what aspect you consider to be
"foolish"?


I was both harsh and hasty.  I googled and read up on u.u. which I think
means Universalist Unitarian.  As far as I can tell, this is a church for
people who don't really believe in traditional religion, but have all the
emotional aspects that tradition religion provides.

I am one who should have related to this better than I did, for I am one who
has only fond memories and positive emotions towards religion in general.  I
like the art, the music, the culture that goes with religion incorporated.
In my religious days, I loved my church.  I loved my church family.  I was a
good church guy.  It was the hardest thing for me to sever my ties.

The problem I kept running against was the stubborn conclusion that it
simply was not true.  I studied evolution, visited the petrified forest in
Arizona, hiked down into the Grand Canyon from the south rim to the north,
looked at the fossils, studied the layers.  I climbed the mountain to
Wolcott's quarry to see the Burgess Shale in Canada, watched the Harvard
students as they chipped the fossils out of stone.  Against my will, I
became convinced that evolution is true, which meant my religion was false.
Science is the way and the truth, even if not the life.

For years I struggled with the question, does it matter if religion is true
or false?  Eventually I concluded that for most people it does not matter.
But for me, it matters.  I love true things.  I want to base my life on
objective truth, evidence, reason.  Only truth, and I argue to this day that
there is objective truth.  I still miss the church life.  I would like to
believe it is true, but I cannot.

Perhaps Universalist Unitarian is a good place for recovering religionists.
It probably would have helped me 20 years ago.  Now, I no longer need it,
any more than a person who quit smoking 20 years ago would need nicotine
patches now.  Too late for that, mighta helped back then.

I apologized for jumping Ilsa, and I meant it.  I didn't understand what she
was talking about exactly (did you?), but after that unpleasantness
regarding religion a few months ago, I was eager to see that not repeated.
Ideally, ExI-chat should be a religion-free zone; we are not about that
here.  But perhaps that is not practical either, or perhaps that is just my
own view that I should keep to myself.  On the other hand, I am not
currently acting as moderator (thanks Gene and J.Andrew) so Ilsa is free to
ignore my request; I wouldn't do anything.

Robert, criticism accepted.  Do meditate away, with my sincerest blessing my
friend.  

{8-]

spke