[extropy-chat] Agency as Prime Determinant of Personal Identity

[Lee Corbin]

Jef  writes to provide the best description I've ever seen
of the danger to one's personal identity posed by simply
becoming different over time.

> Here's an example intended to show that values, beliefs and
> memories don't necessarily or sufficiently define a person.

There follows an extremely good example of how a single
legal person can change rather dramatically over decades
into who I'd call "someone else" (see Jef's *full* explication
below).

> Alice at the age of six loved playing with dolls but boys
> were icky. She wasn't sure whether she believed in Santa
> Claus, and her memories were like those of most little girls,
> revolving around events in her home and with the neighbor
> kids, and she especially remembered her fourth birthday
> party (birthdays are great!) when grandma came to visit
> all the way from... someplace far away.

<snip>

> At eighty-six, Alice and her partner stayed almost entirely
> at home due to the ongoing bioterrorist threats. It wasn't so
> bad though, and in fact she was more active and involved
> than ever before using the latest telepresence technology.
> It allowed her to be in more than one place at the same
> time, and while her multiple projects were very important
> to her, even with mental augmentation she sometimes felt
> she might explode from all the in-rushing information. Being
> so plugged into the net it was often hard to discern where
> "Alice" ended and the rest of the world began, and she could
> "remember" almost anything instantly.

So why the devil do you think that the person who the six
year old was  is still alive, or can still be said to exist?  Just
what is it that they have in common that justifies saying so?

(What if, though, we *each* project our own histories into
this question?  And derive our assumptions and doctrines
therefrom?  At age 6 I did a few things that are exactly
the kind of thing that distinguishes me from everyone I know;
also I am able to still very strongly identify with who I was
at age 16.  But those are the *only* reasons that I think I'm
still the same person.  I.e., I haven't been changing as quickly
as your Alice.)

As so many do and have done, you appear here to be placing
a lot of emphasis on simple continuity.  Maybe not; we'll wait
for your explication of "agency".  But I've always been against
simple continuity as a determinant of personal identity.   In 1991
I wrote an article for the cryonics magazine "The Immortalist"
in which one gradually grows and ages and turns into a frog.
Now it is clear at the end of this process YOU are dead, and
there is a new frog in the world.

Likewise if you gradually changed into Lee Corbin, then Jef
would be dead:  there would be 2 Lee Corbins in the world
and 0 Jefs.  The title of my piece was:  "Continuity, the Last
Refuge of the Soul".  But, as you know, souls do not exist.

Lee

> Alice at the age of six loved playing with dolls but boys were icky. She wasn't sure whether she believed in Santa Claus, and her 
> memories were like those of most little girls, revolving around events in her home and with the neighbor kids, and she especially 
> remembered her fourth birthday party (birthdays are great!) when grandma came to visit all the way from... someplace far away.
>
> When Alice turned sixteen, playing with dolls was long since passé and boys were the most important focus of her life.  She didn't 
> believe in Santa Claus, but she believed very strongly that anyone should be allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they 
> don't hurt anyone else, and she really really really wished people would leave her alone!  Her memories were mostly of friends and 
> social events over the last several years, but she didn't remember a lot about her early childhood years.
>
> When Alice was twenty-six, she was very active in her local chapter of United World, and it frustrated her to no end how people 
> were so blind to the importance, rather the necessity, of being involved and working together for a common cause. Her memories 
> were full of momentous world events and she could hardly remember being the sixteen year old who so often said "leave me alone" 
> when people offered to help.
>
> At thirty-six, Alice couldn't understand how people could find time for idealistic dreams like "saving the world" when she and her 
> husband had their hands more than full with two jobs, two mortgages and two kids.  She believed strongly that family (especially 
> the children) comes first, and that free time was among the most valuable things in the universe.  She had fond memories of being 
> sixteen, when life was so simple and free.
>
> <Skip ahead fifty years>
>
> At eighty-six, Alice and her partner stayed almost entirely at home due to the ongoing bioterrorist threats. It wasn't so bad 
> though, and in fact she was more active and involved than ever before using the latest telepresence technology. It allowed her to 
> be in more than one place at the same time, and while her multiple projects were very important to her, even with mental 
> augmentation she sometimes felt she might explode from all the in-rushing information. Being so plugged into the net it was often 
> hard to discern where "Alice" ended and the rest of the world began, and she could "remember" almost anything instantly.
>
> <Skip ahead fifty years>
>
> On their one hundred thirty-sixth birthday Alice's variants and doubles noted their anniversary in passing but were much too 
> engaged with multiples of projects to choose to allocate an attentional resource branch for a dedicated celebration. AlicePrime 
> would have wanted it that way, and it's not like anyone's going to forget anything these days.
>
> -------------
>
> I'll follow up later with the next part, about how threads of agency (single or multiple) are a more general basis for 
> determination of personal identity.