[extropy-chat] Detectives and red herrings (was Survivaltangent)

[Lee Corbin]

Jef also wrote a summary of his own position:

----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:41 AM


> Jef's position:
> The Self that one imagines might survive independently of changes in its
> environment is an illusion (albeit a convenient one) because the self
> exists only in terms of its interactions with its environment.

Well, you may qualify this in the next statements, but this does make
it sound that if I take a sudden vacation to Tokyo (where I've never
been), and immerse myself as much as I can with what's going on
there---including intensely studying the language---then while I am
there I am someone else.  But I say, on the contrary, that because
the VBM are still so much the same, it's really *me* in Tokyo, not
someone else.

> As an agent acting within a given environmental context, what is
> best from the point of view of that agent is not necessarily
> survival but that it influences its environment so as to promote its
> own values into the future, in effect acting to create a future world
> matching the model it would like to see.

Wow!  That sounds very idealistic to me (in the sense of willing
to give up something). "Survival" is what I'm talking about, as you
know.  Suppose that I determine that Eliezer or someone can more
effectively "promote my values into the future" than I can.  So I
should agree to stop being me, and let there be two of him? No
way!  Call me selfish, but these VBM are going to stick around
if they can help it, especially the memories.

> To the extent that the future world contains an
> entity representing Self, then it can be said that
> Self "survived."  To the extent that multiple agents
> represent Self, then it can be said that
> they are indeed Self.

I agree.  But it's absolutely mandatory from my perspective that
things supposed to be Myself have my *memories* in order to
be me.  The values and beliefs are definitely secondary, though
important, in my opinion.

Lee