[extropy-chat] Calvin and Memes (was Memes and Identity)

[Lee Corbin]

Robert writes

> With respect to William Calvin, it would require a long note to
> go into his ideas and I wouldn't want to misexplain them as its
> been a while since I've read them.  But the two books sitting
> on  my shelf are "How Brains Think" and "The Cerebral Code".
> I think if you read them you would understand why I am saying
> that one can treat neural patterns as memes.

Well, on page 82 of "The Cerebral Code" he writes

      In [Dawkins's] 1976 book, "The Selfish Gene", he extended
      the notion of copying genes to copying memes (cultural entities
      such as words and tunes). It took awhile before anyone
      realized its implications for copying inside a single brain.

While Calvin goes on and on about copying, he doesn't use the word
"meme" to describe the process. And we see from his parenthetical
explanation, above, that he endorses the usual narrower use of the term.

There are only two places in Calvin's other book "How Brains Think"
where the term is used. One is on page 104 where he lists six key
characteristics of a darwinian process necessary to keep it going:

    * It involves a pattern. Classically, this is a string of DNA bases
       called a gene. As [Dawkins] pointed out, the pattern could 
       also be a cultural one such as a melody, and he usefully coined
       the term *meme* for such patterns. The pattern [Calvin's] could
       also be the brain activity patterns associated with thinking a
       thought.

Notice he's saying that the darwinian process could be a meme or it
could also be brain activity patterns, evidently not regarding one as a
kind of the other.

    * Copies are somehow made of this pattern...
    * Patterns occasionally change...
    * Copying competitions occur....
    * The relative success of the patterns is influenced by a multi-
       faceted environment.
    * The next generation is based on which variants survive to a
       reproductive age and successfully find mates.

So there is little evidence that Calvin would call his patterns "memes",
and nowhere does he say that his patterns are examples of memes.

Here is why I don't want the meaning of meme to expand any further.
Originally it began as in Dawkins' classic phrase referring to cultural
replicators. Then it expanded to include beliefs.  I was (and am) okay
with this.

Then it expanded to include any idea whatsoever. I didn't object, but
maybe I should have (I don't know).

It threatens to keep on expanding until the term has lost all utility
whatsoever. To include *memories* and *any information that
can be copied* seems like going way too far.

I think that it may be a lost cause to remove "ideas" from being memes.
Haven't we just seen that usage in too many places?  But if we can
restrict its meaning, in my opinion we should.

Lee

>  I think he may have written some more recent books as well but I haven't
> read them.  See [1]. 
> 1. http://www.williamcalvin.com