[extropy-chat] 'a process of non-thinking called faith' 2 (2)

[kevinfreels.com]

> >But I do not subscribe to your notion of a lower level gene driven
program
> >of genocide.
>
> Ok, though you might note that chimps practice genocide on neighbors.
>
Is it true genocide? Or is it something else entirely? Is the killing done
for genetic reasons or are there cultural considerations? What genotypes do
they seek to kill? Do they go after groups that are more genetically similar
to themselves? Or do they seem those that are less similar? Or do they seek
to destroy those that are closer by or further away? Is it genocide when a
chimp kills a bonobo? Or a baboon or monkey? Where exactly are those lines
that trigger it? Is genocide even a real phenomenon? I'm sorry if I am not
very clear in what I am saying. I have had a tough week and am having a
difficult time focusing.

> >If anything it's a defense mechanism where they feel that if they do not
> >kill, they will be killed.
>
> And that defense mechanism is *not* the result of genes that build brains?

No. It would be similar to the fight or flee instinct. Many animals have
various defense mechanisms without any brain building going on. This "brain
building genocide" requires that  the more intelligent people are also the
most violent.......And "genocide" could work just as easily to shrink the
brain as it could to build a brain. Dumber, more violent and less rational
minds could win over the slightly smarter but less violent people which
allows their less sophisticated brains to reproduce more children. After
all, it's the tough football players in high school that get the girls, not
the geeks...........
>
> >I think that even if they were all genetic clones, after years of being
> >taught different things, living in different cultures and experiencing
> >different lives, they would still be killing each other.
>
> Oh.  I misunderstood your meaning.  What I guess you mean is a
> disinclination to kill those closely related even when there is a massive
> resource crunch.  Humans don't have genetic analyzers so we make do with
> proxy information that was reliable enough when we lived in hunter gather
> bands.  All those in the band could be considered related, family members
> were close relatives.
>
> Easter Island was settled by about 20 people, probably already closely
> related.  There followed about 400 years of peaceful population growth,
> reaching perhaps as many as 20,000 people and grossly over exploiting the
> resources of the island.  One day they downed the tools they had been
using
> to make the statues, and went at each other with rocks till 95% of the
> population was dead.  At that point the wars ended.  A generation or two
> later Europeans visited (a disaster in itself).
>
> The point here is that there was a *long* period with little or no
> warfare.  What turned it on and what turned it off?

Maybe a sudden loss of good quality women? Maybe through disease?
Or maybe that sibling rivalry that grows into a family dispute splitting the
family and then people take sides and after so many generations they are
always suspicious of each other, then someone does something stupid or evil,
or an accident occurs which is blamed on someone else.........Heck, the list
goes on. Can you not think of any other reason than to say it's embedded in
the genes? You need not assume that something was "turned on". People get
angry about all sorts of stuff and they have the capacity to kill. Then as
they become desensitized to it killing becomes easier and easier. Things
escalate until such time that there are much fewer people and they look back
and see what they did and go "maybe we should thing about peace". This
process plays over and over throughout history. If you continue to add fuel
and air, eventually a small spark sets off a big flame. Then when there is
nothing left but rubble, people recognize how badly they need each other and
start to play nice again. If genocide were truly embedded in our genes, then
you could drop 10 people of various races with various skills on an island
from a shipwreck and expect them to kill each other. I thnk they would
choose to work together for their own survival.