[extropy-chat] Primates dreams and posthuman futures

[Jef Allbright]

I still feel my buttons getting pushed--even with years of exposure to
the diversity of opinions and viewpoints on this list--when someone
starts talking about posthuman futures, all the while juxtaposing their
current self-image with future ecologies (or perhaps "economies" might
be the better word) that would eat them up in an instant, if in fact
they merited even that much attention.

Of course, getting one's buttons pushed is the point of this discussion,
for we define ourselves in terms of what sets us off, and gets us off,
in our relationships to society and our environment.  But is it a
failure of imagination, or rather a resounding success of
self-assurance, that the worlds we imagine always seem to contain a
version of the Self we know and love? 

Don't worry...

You will NOT be assimilated.

Who would assimilate you, let alone want to employ you, or even interact
with you, in a world where the pace of production is thousands (or
millions) of times faster than today?  Lizbeth and I went to the zoo
yesterday, and I was repeatedly struck by how every animal species
demonstrated its competitive traits--territoriality and domination at
every level--and how every instance of cooperation is (in the bigger
picture) a more effective means of competition within a hostile
coevolutionary environment. Of course, all the people at the zoo are
quite contentedly aware that humans and animals aren't really
comparable, I mean, look at who's caged and then who's actually free to
enjoy life...

So when transhumanists dream of fantastic futures, with "highly
advanced" lifestyles including a multitude of novel sexual modes,
unimagined sensory feasts, and amazing feats of physical and mental
prowess (for peaceful purposes only, of course), they might do well to
consider a nice out of the way space or undersea community, or perhaps a
virtual reality simulation providing all the comforts of their native
habitat while remaining relatively safe from predators.  

The good news is that the long tail of the accelerating technological
growth curve may provide plenty of niches for entities such as ourselves
to enjoy those aspects of life that deep down we know make it truly
worth living.

The only alternative would be to lose ourselves in change, abandoning
all dignity and respect much as certain lowly larva unthinkingly give up
everything that matters to them, for their transformation to a
butterfly.

- Jef


> Ben wrote:
> "Robert Bradbury" <robert.bradbury at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [me]
> >> I though this was a rather odd thing for a transhumanist to say. 
> >> Don't you expect your ability to make good judgements to 
> improve in  
> >> the future?
> 
> > I'm not sure
>  > ...
> > It forces me into a position of giving up my "position" so as to 
> > effectively become equivalent to the the AGI (where the past me is 
> > probably becoming a microfraction of myself at an extremely rapid
> > rate)
> 
> OK, we all fall under the 'tranhumanist' umbrella, but that 
> seems to embrace some radically different stances.
> 
> "climbing the curve at the limits imposed by the laws of physics"
> "The past me becoming a microfraction of myself at an 
> extremely rapid rate"
> 
> They sound like the kind of thing that would be eminently 
> desirable to me. I see the current me as little more than a 
> foetus, comparatively speaking, in terms of intelligence, 
> understanding, ability (including the ability to make 'good 
> judgments'), etc. I certainly don't want to stay that way. I 
> want to grow up!
> 
> As somebody once said "We're all in the gutter, but some of 
> us are looking at the stars".
> I find it odd that you personally seem to expect or want to 
> 'stay in the gutter', if i understand you right.
> 
> 
> Then BillK <pharos at gmail.com> said:
> 
> > Certainly, if transhumans just think 'faster', then they won't 
> > necessarily think any 'better' or 'differently' than at 
> present. They  
> > will just reach the same poor conclusions a bit quicker.
> > 
> > Some might suggest that extra processing speed would enable 
> > transhumans to take more factors into account in their 
> decision-making 
> > and thus make better decisions. But while that is true, it won't 
> > actually happen unless some form of mental training in how to think 
> > logically is also added. This seems to be assumed in a lot of 
> > discussion about transhumans. That by some magic, these superhumans 
> > will be really nice and moral and care for the poor ordinary humans 
> > left behind. Whereas it seems just as likely to me that 
> they will be 
> > equally as brutal and nasty as ordinary humans given a bit 
> more power.
> > 
> > Leap twenty years ahead and we might have transhumans that 
> can watch 
> > the ball game, read a comic, listen to rap music, chat to their 
> > friends, trade on ebay, plagiarise an essay for college 
> work, schedule 
> > social activities, etc. all at the same time. That's 
> progress for you.
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> This is really pessimistic.
> If that's what we're headed for, what's the point?
> 
> I mean, it's possible that there is nothing beyond our current mental
> horizons (i don't believe it, but that doesn't mean it isn't 
> possible),
> but i'd sure like to find out.
> 
> Do you really think that our future is just 'bigger bananas'?
> 
> Won't we be entering a new arena, where the things that lead humans to
> be brutal and nasty have been overcome? I'm not saying 
> post-humans will
> be automatically super-benevolent, but at least the rules of the game
> should change so much that the game becomes something different
> altogether. I should imagine that ball games, comics and rap 
> music would
> have about as much appeal (and relevance) as catching termites with a
> stick has for us now.