[extropy-chat] Tyranny in place

Samantha Atkins sjatkins at mac.com
Mon Oct 2 04:51:30 UTC 2006

Joseph Bloch wrote:
> Samantha  Atkins wrote:
>>> Talk to me about true tyranny when George W. Bush is still in the 
>>> White House on January 21st, 2009. Until then, I see nothing more 
>>> than a possibly over-zealous (and only possibly so), but still 
>>> well-intentioned, attept to protect the United States from an enemy 
>>> which is determined to eradicate our way of life and in the process 
>>> stifle forever the Transhumanist dream, if only 
>> How about when the election of 2004 was quite possibly stolen?  Bush ossibly over-zealous but nothing more?  I am rendered speechless.   We are destroying our own way of life with our apparent willingness to dismantle our own freedom and protections in order to stop a few nutcase terrorist groups.  If you care about preserving our way of life, as I do, then you must be on guard against this clear danger also.
> Don't be ridiculous. Stolen elections? Dismantling freedoms? You sound 
> like the worst posters on dailykos...
Sigh.  Now who is ignorant?

>>> incidentally as a part of its attempt to drag the world back to the 
>>> 13th Century.
>> Sheesh.  All the Jihadists and Islamists (whatever that is) in the world haven't a tiny part of the power required to do any such thing.  But rampant fear-mongering plus our own heavy increasing influence of religion based politics may destroy our way of life.
> I am appalled at your ignorance as to what an Islamist is. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism will provide a starting point. 
> http://www.jihadwatch.org will yield a wealth of further information. 

I am not ignorant at all.  Just bemused about "Islamists" being the
demons in every woodshed that "commies" once were.  I am not at all
bemused or amused by this country destroying itself through
fear-mongering.   I am not amused by an administration that lies
shamelessly to the people, spends us to oblivion in unending war and
seems bent on removing freedoms from the people and any and all checks
on its power.  I am not amused it takes it upon itself to largely ignore
science, teach abstinence only as "sex education" and sexually
transmitted disease prevention and nearly stops dead what is arguably
the most important medical innovation of our generation.  It does not
matter that they are Republicans.  I have little use for either of the
major parties.  It does matter to me and matter very much that they are
a real danger to what I hold dear. 

> And as far as their having no power to attain their ends, I direct your 
> attention to their successful usurpation of a sovereign nation 
> (Afghanistan), and their ongoing attempts to repeat that feat in other 
> nations (Afghanistan again, Iraq, Somalia, Indonesia, Pakistan, et al). 
> If they can take over one nation, and have a credible shot at taking 
> over others, then they are a threat that must be addressed. And if you 
> don't think Iran's ongoing attempts to secure the ability to produce 
> nuclear weapons are part of this threat, then I must conclude that you 
> are simply so blinded by your partisanship that you will not see the 
> threat until you are faced with a law requiring the burqa in California 
> (if then).
Afghanistan?  I am quaking in my tennies.  One of the poorest, most
miserable and strife-torn nations on earth.  Iran by all respected
opinions can not produce its own nukes in less than 5-10 years ever if
the entire world simply paid no attention, which ain't going to happen. 
If that had them why would they be more likely to use them than Pakistan
who already has them?  How would they manage to bring the world to its
knees in front of Allah even if they had a few nukes and decent delivery
systems?  Are you using this to excuse what is happening in the most
powerful country on earth and arguably the most important for freedom
and continuing technological advance?

>>> The goal of the Islamists; a global Caliphate which places all of 
>>> humanity under strict Islamic law, is a scenario which must be 
>>> avoided at all costs.
>> What a silly fantasy this is.  Besides, in this most powerful nation on earth there are far more in positions of great power who want all to live under Old Testament law.    
> I hope, I truly hope, that you wake up from your Republican-hating ways 
> to realize that this nation really does face an external threat of 
> hitherto-unseen proportions.
The threat of hitherto-unseen proportions is much nearer than you
think.  It is a common tactic in a country headed away from freedom to
focus all attention on an external enemy.  If the enemy is elusive,
everywhere and nowhere and can never really be defeated then all the
better for the smokescreen behind which unanswerable nearly unstoppable
power over its own people amasses.   I hope that you and others who
think likewise wake up before it is far too late.

>  It's not about people in power in the U.S. 
> And, for the record, I am well aware of, and highly concerned about, the 
> Dominionist movement, but I daresay that a handful of well-connected 
> Dominionists don't quite rise to the level of threat posted by millions 
> of Islamists inspired by their ridiculous faith (as all faiths are 
> ridiculous) to impose their vision of their faith on every single human 
> being on this planet by deadly force, and being willing to kill 
> themselves to advance that goal.
That handful has it hands on real power that those millions cannot
touch.  They are also far more than a handful.  

- s

Do you really believe there is nothing about the people in power in the
US to worry about?  Really?  Those millions of Islamists don't have a
decent armed forces among them and they don't run this country.  So I
don't consider them the most likely threat vector to what I care about.

> Unless I have somehow missed the hordes of Baptist suicide bombers 
> publically calling for the use of nuclear weapons against Democrats...
> Joseph
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