[extropy-chat] Putting God to Rest

Anna Taylor femmechakra at yahoo.ca
Tue Apr 24 00:51:59 UTC 2007

I apologize if the post is too long.  I have a
distinct feeling the thread will not last too long
before meta arrives:) Here are my main points:

Robert wrote:
>The goal before transhumanists is to displace "belief
>in fantasy" with "belief in science". It is a simple
>transformation of "We can never go to the moon." >to
"We have walked on the moon.".

I agree but simply saying Religion and the existence
of God is bullshit will not convince people of faith. 
The main point of my post was to imply that I don't
believe in judgement and that I respect other people's
choice of belief.  

>However when presenting it to others one must
>recognize that one is presenting "facts not in
>evidence" and that "followers" are acting on faith in
>ones interpretation. 

I understand religion very well. I have read theology
as much as I have read philosophy.  I am in no way
promoting religion but merely the fact that everybody
has a right to there beliefs. If on this list you can
say that "God doesn't exist" then a religious person
has the exact same right to dispute it. You need proof
but the next right beside you doesn't! They just
believe.  I don't see the point in debating who's
right or wrong.   

John Clark wrote:
>Not in ANY way? I'm curious, are there any other
>great lies you think should never be challenged, any
>other great evil? That statement is quite simply

I don't believe Religion is evil, I believe that the
humans that run Religious orders can/may/will be evil.
I find that statement rather humorous.  My mother is a
 dioceses in a Protestant church, we spend much of our
time debating the none religious versus the religious,
I being the none religious.  I would gladly challenge
many of the stories that religion tells.  Just the
other day we had a debate about cryonics.  My clever
story was that "if Jesus was considered human, and he
was resurected, why would God object to all humans
being resurected?"  My point was not about whether God
and Religion is right or wrong but about the respect
for other peoples beliefs.      

>I am not stomping on anyone, I'm just making what I
>believe is an objective statement when I say
>religious ideas are asinine. 

I don't feel that you are making an objective
statement, I feel you are giving me your opinion.  I
just don't agree with the opinion.  

>Well Ok, I suppose you could say I stomped on them
>metaphorically, but the trouble is all too often
>religious people stomp on people with ideas like mine

That's exactly my point.  The tug of war seems futile
to me.  I can't change my mother's mind about God, I
don't even try, though I try and change the way she
looks at Religion. 

>They are perfectly free to call me asinine in return
>if they wish. Well Ok, I suppose you could say I
>stomped on them metaphorically, but the trouble is
>all too often religious people stomp on people with
>ideas like mine LITERALLY. 

Does that mean that I have to choose who is right or
wrong to be on this list?  

It's one thing for scientists to simply regard
religion as irrelevant to their work, but when they
start to talk about transcending biology and living
forever, that might sound to a believer like a rerun
of Satan's rebellion against God. 

Jeff Albright wrote:
>We discuss here a wide range of thinking and beliefs
(and thinking and beliefs about thinking and beliefs)
but for most of us Theism had been exposed as highly
irrational (making highly improbable claims
unsupported by observation) long before we found this

I agree. I'm not saying that religion is rational, I
am saying that it exists and that I respect people
beliefs.  I don't see what's wrong with that?

Keith wrote:
We might be as little as 5 years or perhaps even less
from understanding where, why and how such feelings
arise. There is a *lot* of money being spend on autism
and I suspect from what Tooby and Boyer said last week
that the path to understanding autism will also give
us an answer to why humans have religions at all. 

I have no problem with religion, I have a problem with
the mentality that's running it. If this study can
examine why people need religion then I am all for it
and interested.  

You're feeling frustrated because you're on the wrong
mailing list. There are dozens of forums in the world
that will not create this feeling of utter frustration
in you. Find one. 

This list doesn't cause me frustration in the least. 
I find the posts fascinating, pleasant, educational,
respectful and all together a progress to my growth. I
have tried to find other lists that have captivated my
attention but none have compared.  
This thread caused an utter frustration.  If you and
others on the list think I don't belong on the list
please feel free to let me know offlist and I will
seize from posting. (I am rather surprised that you
didn't already meta this thread.  For someone that is
considering building a Friendly AI, out of courtesy,
put on it's list, "please don't be rude.")

I didn't want this to be a big debate.  I just wanted
to get my point accross.  I apologize if it offended
anybody, it wasn't my intention.



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