[ExI] Where is Consciousness located?

John K Clark jonkc at att.net
Sun Dec 23 16:11:03 UTC 2007

Brent, your post is rather long, but in almost all of it you just say I am
wrong or I am very wrong in new and different ways without saying
one word about why I am wrong, then you tell me there are foolproof
answers to all my objections without telling me what they are.
Then near the very end you say:

> if an environment has natural phenomenal properties

Translation: If an environment has properties.

Better Translation: If an environment.

>they could be used to more effeciently represent information, especially
>of the motivational type, than simple abstracted behavioral
>representations.  All of this clearely demonstrating [...]

Clearly?!!! I'm not even going to attempt to translate that bafflegab, but I
have no doubt even the most inarticulate person could express the above
idea more clearly than you have, assuming of course that you want it
clearly expressed. If you have a really bad idea the last thing in the world
you'd want to do is express it clearly.

> how evolution could evolve

Evolution evolves? I thought it still worked by random mutation and natural

 >to utilize such, due to their benefit and efficiently for increasing

We were talking about consciousness not intelligence. If you can have
intelligent behavior without consciousness you will need more than
bafflegab to explain why natural selection picked it.

> Check arorund Nov 2005, for one example of a bunch of us having
> this same conversation.

Oh yes, that's where you said "Phenomenal properties are most definitely
causal" but now you say "I also very much disagree with the idea that
consciousness is only a process". Brent it's OK to change your mind but the
trouble is you're going backward.

 John K Clark

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