[ExI] [extropy-chat] How to be copied into the future?

[John K Clark]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin at rawbw.com>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ExI] [extropy-chat] How to be copied into the future?


> John writes
>
>> Stathis:
>>>> If I-now think I've survived as a continuation of I-before,  then 
>>>> that's
>>>> what matters in survival.
>>
>> Heartland, High Priest of the Unique Atom and Sacred Original Cult Wrote:
>>
>> > That doesn't matter at all.
>>
>> No, what matters to you is not continuity of process but continuity of
>> atoms;
>
> I still don't understand why you persist in making this claim. Would
> not Heartland instantly agree that each second he loses and gains
> billions of atoms?  Why, for all we know, he'd be perfectly happy
> to have a heart bypass operation, and lose quadrillions upon
> quadrillions of his atoms.  Moreover, it would not surprise me in
> the least if he'd quickly sign up for hippocampus replacement,
> if it guaranteed a wonderful memory enhancement. (Now of course,
> his guarantees would be more stringent than yours and mine; he
> might insist upon being conscious throughout the operation, for
> instance.)  BUT  ISN'T  IT  PATENTLY  WRONG  TO  KEEP
> ON  SAYING  THAT  FOR  HIM  IT'S  ALL  ABOUT  ATOMS??
>
>> and what matters to you is objective temporal continuity, subjective
>> continuity doesn't matter at all to subjective experience (!), at least
>> according to you.
>>
>>> Why should it matter?
>>
>> Because subjectivity is the most important thing in the universe.
>>
>> > Of course it's subjective so it's not valid evidence at all.
>>
>> That pretty much sums up the absurdity of your position, the idea that I
>> need objective proof in order for me to believe I am having a subject
>> experience.
>
> Here I have to agree with Heartland a little more than I agree with
> you:  Yes, you have to believe in your subjective experience as real,
> and indeed, the most real thing that there is. But you may be
> simply mistaken about the way that things *seem* to you subjectively.
> It may be that you are *not* the same John Clark as the world knew
> yesterday.  You're clever enough that I don't need to spell that out
> in a thought experiment.
>
> So subjectivity---just as he says---is a quite *useless* social concept,
> quite useless to throw around in intelligent discussion with other people
> who have no access to your subjectivity.  Hell, for all I know, John
> Clark may be a Giant Lookup Table and not be conscious at all!  I
> am the only thing in the universe that I know for sure is conscious,
> although it would be stupid to bet against other people being so.
>
>> The feeling of being alive is a subjective experience and I don't
>> need your precious space time trajectories of my individual atoms to 
>> prove
>> to me that I feel alive any more than I need proof that the sensation I 
>> feel
>> when I put my hand in a fire I find unpleasant. Direct experience 
>> outranks
>> even the Scientific Method.
>
> Who, besides you, gives a ---- about your subjective experience?
>
> Lee
>
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