[ExI] [extropy-chat] Posthumanism vs. Transhumanism

[Natasha Vita-More]

At 10:43 AM 5/5/2007, you wrote:
>"nvitamore at austin.rr.com" <nvitamore at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > While I was away at a conference there was some discussion about
> > posthumans and posthumanism. In my research in preparing my paper on
> > BioArt, many of the theoreticians and curators I spoke with referred
> > to the posthuman and discounted the transhuman (including isms). I
> > have known for some time that there is an academic dismissing of
> > transhumanism and an embracing of posthumanism, in large part due to
> > Kathryn Hayles book which does not cover transhumanism. This book
> > also does not mention Max's published article "On Becoming Posthuman"
> > and also importantly Robert Peppernell who wrote "The Posthuman
> > Condition." I know that UK professors are annoyed at Hayles'
> > borrowing ideas from Pepperell and not recognizing him.
> >
> > Many of the reasons for this and I'd like to discuss it with you all
> > in this thread. First I'd like to hear your thoughts if you have
> > any.
>
>Two reasons i can think of:
>
>1) Ignorance of tanshumanism. Maybe they think of transhumanism as
>something separate from the means to achieve a posthuman state. A lot of
>bizzarre-sounding ideas go under the banner of transhumanism.

Yes, this may be true to a degree.  Although the ideas of transhumanism are 
not bizarre to anyone who thinks about the future outside academic and 
"futurist" business models.  These domains are stiff and often rigid, no 
matter how much they assume they are thinking about the future.  From first 
hand experience, academics are still in the postmodernism world and 
business folks are stuck in Future Studies which lacks knowledge about 
evolutionary ideas in can and will affect humanity.

>2) Distancing themselves from the above-mentioned bizarre ideas, while
>still being able to talk about the future consequences.

Yes.

>When these academics talk about posthumans, do they see them as existing
>in some remote future, or in the next 20 years?

Within a considered "assumable" future 50 years.  But they are not 
multi-tracking for the most part and are hedging their bets with the 
domains that are tangible to them.  There is fluent thinking in 
cybernetics, social change, philosophy, emergent technologies, but the 
framing of these areas are within staying "human" but being posthuman 
through machines and transference of identity or mind agents into other 
realities.  There is concern about Hans Moravec, but almost as a joystick 
because Moravec is such a sweetheart and well liked that his ideas are not 
really truly taken seriously for the enormous potential they have in 
affecting the human.  So, the assumptive thinking is that machines will not 
become more intelligent than humans and science fiction is okay to battle 
if one can be a liberal humanist and literary provocateur by using all 
sorts of big words and references, which is essential for academic writing 
(although some transhumanist have gotten away with not doing this.)

>Oh, i just thought of another one:
>3) It's just a game. To these people, 'posthuman' is like 'postmodern'.
>the last thing they want is to think it actually means something real.

Haha.  Could be, but I think that Hayles is very well-versed in her area of 
knowledge, but could be true.

Natasha

<http://www.natasha.cc/>Natasha <http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More
PhD Candidate, <http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Planetary 
<http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Collegium
<http://www.transhumanist.biz/>Transhumanist Arts & Culture
<http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy Institute

If you draw a circle in the sand and study only what's inside the circle, 
then that is a closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the 
circle and everything outside the circle, then that is an open system 
perspective. - Buckminster Fuller


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