[ExI] White Privilege

[Olga Bourlin]

From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin at rawbw.com>
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:32 AM
>
> Evidently, you don't really want to talk about the "History of Slavery" 
> ...

... I love history.  But, I am wondering ... ***practically*** speaking, 
what good would it be to talk about the history of slavery here?  It's a 
sordid history (and I am familiar with it).  Something different happened 
when slavery became based more on "race" (identifiable physical 
characteristic) rather than just class.

And one of my favorite books on this subject (by far not the definitive book 
on this subject, but good) - is one I've mentioned here before - called The 
Arrogance of Faith, by Forrest G. Wood.  Take a look:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/allen_3_3.html

and

http://us_asians.tripod.com/articles-ethnic-diversity.html

> or "Class Differences Among Black People".  You want to talk about
> (and condemn) White Privilege, so I have changed the subject line
> accordingly.   :-) > Basically, I suppose that you want to talk about 
> White Privilege
> with an eye towards what can be done about it, which is a very
> interesting inquiry.

> At one point I thought you admitted that it was a world-wide
> "problem", but then in another place said that it was basically
> American.  What is basically American---due to the South's
> need to defend its ideology before the Civil War---is the
> historically first instance of extremely virulent racism. (According
> to Sowell.)  Of course, I presume that we are exempting those
> like Ghengis Khan, or the Romans, who would sometimes
> simply kill everyone they could find of a certain ethnic group.
> What they failed to do, unlike the southerners, was mount an
> intellectual defense of racism.

Certainly, it is a world-wide problem, but I am more familiar with what I've 
observed in the United States for the past few decades (although I have 
observed it in other countries during this time, as well).  Furthermore, the 
United States is ... was trying to be? ... the beacon of democracy, or 
something like that - so I am more concerned about the contradictory message 
here.  Many other countries in the world don't pretend to be fair or equal 
or democratic or modern - so their (whatever) privilege, while unfortunate, 
may not be as contradictory.

> Anyway, the problem of white privilege *is* world-wide. As I said,
> in every country in which they exist in significant numbers, whites
> have taken charge of the basic structures of society. For example
> Amy Chau's book "World On Fire" describes in detail the current
> reigning groups throughout South America. I myself was
> astonished in the 1970s when on TV I saw a Presidential
> reviewing stand in Mexico City during some big parade:  all the
> Mexican big-shots looked very white to me, and a couple of the
> women were blondes.

I have lived in Rio de Janeiro, and have traveled in Spain and Portugal - 
natural blondes are not unknown in those countries.  And unnatural blondes 
are everywhere, as well.  I'm not certain what your point is in the previous 
paragraph, exactly.

> But there isn't really anything special about white people. Soon
> you'll have to recognize that there will be (or is!) Asian privilege
> and Jewish privilege as well. Wealth and power "naturally"
> comes to some groups more than it comes to others.  So either
> by their natures or by their cultures, at the present time, whites
> rule.

The United States is a diverse country - and getting more so.  I cannot 
separate myself from other citizens so easily - whatever their "color" or 
culture.  Black history is American history.  Asian history is American 
history.  Jewish history is American history.  I wouldn't want to have it 
any other way.  All-white-all-the-time history can, indeed, be very 
borrrrrrrrrrrrring.  This country is much more interesting than that!

> Big deal. They're fairly benign as ruling classes historically go, and
> it's even far from monolithic: many middle-class African American
> or Mexicans live in exclusive "white" neighborhoods, or, in California,
> in exclusive "white/Asian" neighborhoods.

Who's benign?  Are you talking about "whites?"  If you are, there's nothing 
benign about them or their culture ... (sometimes boring, yes, but not 
benign).

> But nonetheless, your focus is on a Solution, and I appreciate
> that. Let's turn to history for some lessons. In Europe the past
> 500 years, there was this problem of "Jewish privilege". Money
> somehow kept getting collected into their hands. A solution was
> "ghettoization", restrictions on ownership, restrictions to institutes
> of higher learning, and so on. The controling WASPs were
> trying to defend themselves from Jewish takeover, but eventually
> they failed, at least insofar as many kinds of current American
> institutions go.

500 years?  So much has changed in 500 years - while the history of that 
time frame may be interesting to study, life has changed so much that 500 
years ago ... you may as well be talking about 5000 years ago.

In the Western world, science, technology and the industrial revolution have 
changed everything - our mores, our expectations - and fast.  We have 
inherited what history has wrought, and we need to focus on what to do and 
how to work with the new implements in the old treasure chest.  While 
history is important to know and try to understand (even in spite of what 
Voltaire said), sometimes I fear there may not be any future ... er, 
history.  Many things from the past are no longer relevant.  Mainly - we 
have moved out of our ancestral homes / tribes.  "We (all) are the world" 
now and all that ...

> That's what Sowell is doing: trying to isolate the cultural
> characteristics of different groups that account for their
> prosperity.  (He neglects possible genetic causes, which
> could be an important factor too, but that's reasonable,
> since we won't be able to do anything about them for
> decades yet.)

Yeah, but, again - to what end?  If they're so good ... in your opinion, why 
aren't Sowell's ideas catching on?  I think there's something impractical 
about them - i.e., they don't seem practical for the world today.  And 
Sowell could use some diplomatic lessons - build coalitions and that sort of 
thing, you know?

Olga