[ExI] zmm: quest for the holy honda

[Jef Allbright]

On 11/12/07, Damien Broderick <thespike at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> At 03:34 AM 11/12/2007 -0600, Max wrote:
> >I vaguely recall Pirsig being fascinated with Plato,
> >whose thinking I have never found remotely appealing.
>
> One of the key aspects of his approach that struck me as madly wrong-headed.

Well, Platonism is an irritant of mine too, cf. various discussions on
this very list.

Some quotes supporting the point that Pirsig was arguing against
Plato, mainly on the grounds that Plato's universe was closed, rather
than inherently open.

"Plato and Socrates insisted on all terms being defined.  If you start
with a term that is undefined, like Quality, it is no longer a
footnote to Plato."
-- http://robertpirsig.org/Observer%20Interview.htm

For Pirsig, Plato created the Western philosophical nightmare called
"Professional Philosophy," amongst other things.
-- http://www.moq.org/forum/Kundert/ConfessionsOfAFallenPriest.html

"Pirsig maintains that Plato's commitment to 'dialectically determined
truth' to establish the Good as the highest truth or idea of all,
usurps the Good, or to use Pirsig's term, Quality."
-- http://www.philosophypathways.com/essays/watson2.html

Also I'm curious Damien, as it may be related, whether when you read
the book you got the impression that it was about Zen throughout?

I'm not fully aligned with Pirsig's reasoning, but I fully agree with
his main point which is about the necessarily holistic nature of
something significant which he calls Quality.

By the way, Pirsig added "Phaedrus" after the book was essentially
done, mainly because his zen aesthetics recoiled from each instance of
"I".

- Jef