[ExI] Striving for Objectivity Across Different Cultures

[Stefano Vaj]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Lee Corbin <lcorbin at rawbw.com> wrote:

> Ah. So thanks for removing a misunderstanding I had. I was inferring that
> "ad personam" and "ad hominem"
> were the same thing.   :-)


Why, according to my sources :-),
- ad rem are arguments aimed at demonstrating a statement irrespective of
the positions of the other party,
- ad personam are arguments aimed at demonstrating a statement on the basis
of the other party's postulates or admissions,
- ad hominem arguments aimed at demonstrating a statement on the basis of
the basis of the other party's personality (say, "he is a notorious liar,
then what he says is wrong").

Needless to say, the first kind is not easily available, the second at best
can show the inconsistency of the other party, the third is scarcely
demonstrative of anything but of your ability to leverage the biases of the
public. :-)

>
> I'm not so sure about that. I imagine, per your examples, that I'm
> in a conversation at a dinner party. I may very well
> choose to defend unpopular and sometimes even incomprehensible
> positions that may give my (so-called) adversary an advantage in
> making my positions seem untenable. But so long as I am free to
> reply and free to respond, I don't really care.


Sure. We are only speaking of effectiveness here. And if you are into
marketing, propaganda, evangelism, or advocacy, rather than discussing for
the pleasure of it, you have to care. :-)

>
> I confess, say, to wishing to persuade the others at the dinner party
> that, say, the Earth is very underpopulated, or that people should
> choose being frozen over certain death. It has no bearing on me
> how unacceptable the other guests may find this, unless the situation
> is so extreme (e.g. I've been invited to a religious service) that it
> would be impolite to pursue what I think is the truth.


By the way, one should not overestimate the effectiveness of carefully
crafted, watered-down, personalised, perfectly "reasonable" arguments.

People are more often charmed and fascinated than persuaded, and the shock
effect involved in discovering people who *really*, openly think what is
implied with horror by our critics may open new worlds to your listeners...
:-)

>
> Stefano Vaj
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