From lcorbin at rawbw.com Sun Jun 1 00:01:51 2008 From: lcorbin at rawbw.com (Lee Corbin) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 17:01:51 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State References: Message-ID: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> IN the earlier flds thread, John Clark wrote > Amara writes > >> I found the State of Texas' actions to be a mind-numbing >> expression of among the worst of the U.S.' aggressive >> against-its-citizens, police-state, government-imposed >> purity criteria actions > > A bit of verbal inflation here. If the USA is a police state then > you'll have to invent a new word to describe North Korea, and > all that can get tedious. And you're being unfair to police states. > Totalitarian regimes have worked long and hard developing evil > into a high art and there you go cheapening their image by > comparing them to the wimpy actions of the USA. Masterfully said. >> and it added to my long list of reasons why I shouldn't be >> living in the U.S. Well, every country has its problems (for any given one of us). Even the enlightened countries of Europe, e.g., Italy, pose their own obnoxious and disagreeable problems for some people. Alas, on the globe the realist sees only real countries, no ideal ones. Amara goes on to write in this thread r'chere > > A bit of verbal inflation here. If the USA is a police state > > Brief references: > > 1) > The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek > (a primer on the making of The Total State. The US is right on track.) That sounds *exactly* correct to me. It's very sad, but very true. I wonder what countries, however, are not headed down this path? > 2) > http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20797485/chinas_allseeing_eye/1 > China's All-Seeing Eye by Naomi Klein > With the help of U.S. defense contractors, China is building the > prototype for a high-tech police state. It is ready for export. Thanks for that too. Yup, things are bad all over, no lie. (Though we must be careful to be objective about this and realize just how wonderful it is to be living in almost *any* industrialized modern nation, compared to living in 1950 anywhere at all.) > 3) > "The Best Prisons that Money Can Buy" > http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2006/02/index.html The U.S. is such an incredible outlier on that graph! But there is a simple explanation. Now, since we are talking about the prospect of becoming a police state, let me indulge in (and exult in) a little bit of hate speech and thought crime (while I still can get away with it). I hope that no one on this list gets too upset. Consider that in California prisons, the highest representative ethnic group is Hispanic. And blacks are nearly a third also. In order of size, are Hispanics, whites, and blacks. (Where is the Asian contingent, one wonders. Maybe they're in charge, and everyone else is being discriminated against?) Also, as everyone knows, half of those incarcerated in American prisons are there for drug possession. So, if you subtract half the inmate population who're there on drug charges, and then subtract the minorities, the U.S. stats resemble the stats for the enlightened northern European countries exceedingly well. Which is true simply because that's where they came from. Lee From aiguy at comcast.net Sun Jun 1 00:34:17 2008 From: aiguy at comcast.net (Gary Miller) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 20:34:17 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [agi] Memory as a movie ;crosspost to ExI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob Mottram posted on agi2 >> An interesting case of a woman who never forgets. She describes her memories as a continuously running movie, which she can't turn off. http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2008/05/20080520_b_main.asp Perhaps we all have this kind of memory, but most of the time we only have limited or no conscious access to it. >> Has any one read her book yet The Woman Who Can't Forget: The Extraordinary Story of Living with the Most Remarkable Memory Known to Science--A Memoir (Hardcover) by Jill Price (Author), Bart Davis (Contributor) I just ordered it from Amazon. I am hoping that they have done some extensive measurements on her brains electrical activity as compared to normal humans. There have been some articles posted recently about deep brain stimulation on the hypothalamus improving memory. http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-02/2008-02-01-voa33.cfm I wonder if there is a way to use Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS)to increase activity in the hypothalamus. I can see that it's location looks to be about as far as you can get from the surface of the head. But a picture in Wikipedia make it look like it's just behind an open area which I can only surmise is the back of the sinus cavity. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/LocationOfHypothala mus.jpg/250px-LocationOfHypothalamus.jpg I wonder if TMS has ever been attempted through the Sinus cavity in an attempt to stimulate the hypthalamus. While this would not be completely noninvasive it sounds a lot safer and less expensive, if doable than implanting electrodes for direct brain stimulation. I also wonder what lever of detail these memories contain. Can she go back and read a book from her memories after she first read it? And how easily can she concentrate on given task if she's reading is her mind constantly flooded with memories of things she has read before or can she suspend associating current content with past memories until a later time. I am also interested on any drawbacks she feels this gift may have come with and why she hasn't cleaned up on Jeopardy already. DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor, so before anyone goes stuffing electromagnets up your nose, see you physician! From lcorbin at rawbw.com Sun Jun 1 06:13:44 2008 From: lcorbin at rawbw.com (Lee Corbin) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:13:44 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> <918a899d0805311752r588155d9r5dcfecf141471766@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <108e01c8c3ae$d5fb9660$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Joseph writes > [Lee wrote] > > [Amara wrote] > > > 3) > > > "The Best Prisons that Money Can Buy" > > > http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2006/02/index.html > > > > let me indulge in (and exult in) a little bit of hate speech > > and thought crime (while I can still get away with it)... > > > > Consider that in California prisons... In order of [population], > > are Hispanics, whites, and blacks. > > One wonders what the standard of living in those > California prisons is, The question is wrong---unless it's kept in mind what ethnic group in a certain prison is ascendant. Even more important is where an individual lies in the pecking order. Unlike "outside"---where the law is to protect the weak from the depredations of the strong (except in Texas)--- "inside" there is no law, except the law of the jungle. The result is that there, the very worst creatures are in the most powerful positions, while, God help us, anyone remotely like those of us here participating in this forum would be a forlorn and helpless victim, utterly at the mercy of the big tough bastards and gang leaders And Keith did write that while one may find fellow prisoners with some humanity, not so the guards. (I'm probably exaggerating just a bit, or he was.) > compared to, say, southern California's large cities. > Or Mexico's small villages. Do the prisoners get more > calories per day? I'd be guessing, but probably more calories than in *some* small Mexican villages. Actually, the prisoners probably receive *fewer* calories than all the tubbies on the outside, because of their ample time to exercise, all the free equipment provided for that purpose, and the well-balanced nutritious meals prepared for them. But don't forget the free health care! > Do they suffer from disease at a lesser rate? Is there > a difference in literacy rates (with the educational > opportunities in prison)? I don't know. There is probably some obvious way that certain diseases correlate with being in prison, but I can't think of what right now. Lee > I'm by no means suggesting that being a felon in the > U.S. is preferable to freedom as a Mexican peasant. > But perhaps there are some mitigating factors that > need to be considered here when looking at raw > incarceration statistics... From stathisp at gmail.com Sun Jun 1 06:57:21 2008 From: stathisp at gmail.com (Stathis Papaioannou) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:57:21 +1000 Subject: [ExI] The Total State In-Reply-To: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Message-ID: 2008/6/1 Lee Corbin : >> "The Best Prisons that Money Can Buy" >> http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2006/02/index.html > > The U.S. is such an incredible outlier on that graph! > > But there is a simple explanation. Now, since we are > talking about the prospect of becoming a police state, > let me indulge in (and exult in) a little bit of hate speech > and thought crime (while I still can get away with it). > I hope that no one on this list gets too upset. > > Consider that in California prisons, the highest representative > ethnic group is Hispanic. And blacks are nearly a third also. > In order of size, are Hispanics, whites, and blacks. > (Where is the Asian contingent, one wonders. Maybe > they're in charge, and everyone else is being discriminated > against?) > > Also, as everyone knows, half of those incarcerated in > American prisons are there for drug possession. > > So, if you subtract half the inmate population who're > there on drug charges, and then subtract the minorities, > the U.S. stats resemble the stats for the enlightened > northern European countries exceedingly well. Which > is true simply because that's where they came from. But note the considerably lower incarceration rates in most of Latin America and Africa compared to the US. Does this mean the US turns people into criminals or selectively attracts people with criminal tendencies? -- Stathis Papaioannou From aiguy at comcast.net Sun Jun 1 14:02:21 2008 From: aiguy at comcast.net (Gary Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:02:21 -0400 Subject: [ExI] The Total State In-Reply-To: References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Message-ID: <15A658C5E0B947699721C7E61566609C@ZANDRA2> Stathis Papaioannou asked: << But note the considerably lower incarceration rates in most of Latin America and Africa compared to the US. Does this mean the US turns people into criminals or selectively attracts people with criminal tendencies? >> The obvious answer based upon media events and my talking to coworkers who come from Latin America and third world countries is: Unless you are rich, powerful, or know exactly who the perpetrator is it is difficult to get any kind of investigation much less justice in these countries. No investigation means no arrest, no conviction no incarceration, not even a crime occurrence recorded for statistic sake. Also many criminals can make more money by joining the local police force, or local warlord's militia accepting bribes, extorting money from people running illegal businesses, and selling illegal drugs, money and merchandise confiscated as part of their official duties. Of course if they keep the evidence and sell it they can't arrest the prisoner and have them convicted for lack of evidence. No arrest no incarceration. Of course they could kill the suspect but then wouldn't be able to repeat the confiscation of contraband next time. And in that case they still don't show up as an incarceration. Also honest cops do not have a very long life expectency in these countries. In Mexico right being an honest law enforcement officer is like having a bullseye on your back. Even the crooked cops are targets because if they work for one cartel they're on the other cartel's hit list. http://www.nationalpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=501840 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7393443.stm http://uk.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUKN0820504520080508 http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN2739778420080527 http://news.aol.com/story/_a/no-2-police-officer-in-mexican-border/n20080510 213209990005 So no maybe the answer to your question is that the US has a much higher rate of effective law enforcement and a resonable if not perfect justice system. And although every force has a few bad apples on it, we have checks and balances with internal affairs and at the federal level to prevent whole precincts from going rogue. From jonkc at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 1 14:47:29 2008 From: jonkc at bellsouth.net (John K Clark) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:47:29 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org><000601c74d36$14b5a5d0$80bd1f97@archimede><20070210182045.GF21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101031y61274711hde9a72a2eb2e31ba@mail.gmail.com><20070210184954.GI21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101223t1a3884bdqf57c6677ae95ee1e@mail.gmail.com><005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com><006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com><002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer><45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org><005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer> <000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede> Message-ID: <010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> "scerir" > CF [cold fusion], closer Closer than what, the Virgo Supercluster of galaxies? >but still not ... readable on Nature True, it's not published in any respectable science journal, but the bozo did invite newspaper reporters to publish it and 2 local TV stations. And everybody knows if it's on TV it must be true. The article (http://www.physorg.com/news131101595.html) mentions "esteemed Physics Professor Yoshiaki Arata of Osaka University in Japan". I've never heard of him and know nothing about him except that he knows how to type. On January 29 2007 I wrote: "The pattern is always the same, every few months somebody few have heard of claims to have detected excess heat, a few people even more obscure repeat the experiment and say they see it too; but when people you actually have head of try it they see nothing." And now it is time for Joe Blow the truck driver to repeat the results with remarkable ease and report the results in Spoon Bending Digest while the boiling water IQ people at CERN fail to find a damn thing. Crap like this and Bigfoot and flying saucers and ESP never dies, it doesn't even fade away, just gets more and more ridiculous. John K Clark From lcorbin at rawbw.com Sun Jun 1 15:13:48 2008 From: lcorbin at rawbw.com (Lee Corbin) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 08:13:48 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Message-ID: <10a601c8c3fa$6fd59dd0$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Stathis writes > [Lee wrote] > >> So, if you subtract half the inmate population who're >> there on drug charges, and then subtract the minorities, >> the U.S. stats resemble the stats for the enlightened >> northern European countries exceedingly well. Which >> is true simply because that's where they came from. > > But note the considerably lower incarceration rates in > most of Latin America and Africa compared to the US. A strikingly acute observation (bringing those facts into conflation with my statement above). But then, perhaps you have missed an even more striking consequence of your observation. Namely, let us once again forget the half of the inmates who're there on drug charges, and imagine that the new position the U.S. would occupy on the amazing graphic that Amara supplied: http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/images/prisonindex.pdf This brings the U.S. down to "merely" the level of Barbados, Ukraine, and Singapore, in other words, still vastly above the other industrialized nations. Then consider the new probability that this implies for the incarceration of, say, someone who'd been born in Mexico, Nicaragua, or Columbia. Since these Hispanics already constitute a fraction of the inmate all out of proportion to their population in the U.S., this implies unequivocally that the probability of that person being placed in prison is vastly greater than had he remained in his native country. > Does this mean the US turns people into criminals or selectively > attracts people with criminal tendencies? I would say *both* are necessarily true, and thanks for pointing out these consequences too. But I should explain what I think that the causal mechanisms are at another time, because I just see that Gary Miller has written authoritatively on the subject, and for the sake of list quality must refer my fans to his great post :-) (I promise them two outrageous and provocative---though still very logical---hypotheses later.) Lee From jonkc at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 1 17:25:31 2008 From: jonkc at bellsouth.net (John K Clark) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:25:31 -0400 Subject: [ExI] GLAST References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Message-ID: <001701c8c40c$8a147fb0$0301a8c0@MyComputer> On Thursday the GLAST Gamma Ray observatory will be launched. I'll wager that during its first 10 days of operation it will produce more and better science than the vastly more expensive International Space Station will over its entire life. John K Clark From moulton at moulton.com Sun Jun 1 20:06:58 2008 From: moulton at moulton.com (Fred C. Moulton) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:06:58 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State In-Reply-To: References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Message-ID: <1212350818.16588.1919.camel@hayek> Can I strongly suggest that everyone slow down for a moment and make sure that they are not coming conclusions that are not supported. Consider that if a persons in a lower socio-economic level are incarcerated at a higher rate than those at a different socio-economic level and if a demographic subgroup is disproportionally represented in the lower socio-economic level then members of the subgroup will likely be incarcerated at a higher rate. Thus merely looking any single factor alone might lead to unsubstantiated conclusions. Thus the key indicator may not be a particular demographic such as race or immigration status; it might be something else. Since incarceration rates are shifted by many factors including competency of defense council, honesty of prosecutors, access to non-incarceration alternatives, etc I feel that we need to be cautious and careful in coming to conclusions. As I have said in the past I have high expectations for the posts to this list and I strongly suggest we all try to maintain high standards in our analysis. One thing I try to do is to see if I have incorporated some idea such as racial and ethnic differences uncritically into my analysis when other factors may provide a better understanding of the issue under consideration. It is not always easy but it is often fruitful. Fred From spike66 at att.net Sun Jun 1 21:37:55 2008 From: spike66 at att.net (spike) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:37:55 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State In-Reply-To: <1212350818.16588.1919.camel@hayek> Message-ID: <200806012204.m51M4drV002349@andromeda.ziaspace.com> > Fred C. Moulton > Subject: Re: [ExI] The Total State > >...Since incarceration rates are shifted by > many factors including competency of defense council, honesty > of prosecutors, access to non-incarceration alternatives, etc...Fred I thought of a factor I hadn't seen mentioned: advanced crime fighting technology. I have a friend who works for the telephone company recovering stolen cel phones. He made a comment that has rattled around in my brain for years. As a group, the recovery team gets smarter and smarter, but as a group the criminals don't. The phone guys have techniques that allow the recovery team to figure out where the criminal has called, which often leads to discovery of other crimes the sleazebag has perped since the phone was stolen, such as identity theft. (The cops love this cel phone recovery team.) Often entire crime rings can be exposed in this way. Many criminal careers are ended early and safely. Well, not safely for the criminals, but for society. As technology advances, I can see further advances in crime prevention, as well as technologies that will take the guesswork out of court trials. This is important for America especially, for I have long suspected that many countries buy their criminals one-way tickets to these shores, this expediency being much cheaper than prisons. We already know Cuba did this in the 1980s. spike From msd001 at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 02:14:59 2008 From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:14:59 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings In-Reply-To: <010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org> <005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com> <006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com> <002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer> <45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org> <005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer> <000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede> <010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> Message-ID: <62c14240806011914u18e06d26x982eb0108e0cb289@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:47 AM, John K Clark wrote: > And now it is time for Joe Blow the truck driver to repeat the > results with remarkable ease and report the results in Spoon > Bending Digest while the boiling water IQ people at CERN fail > to find a damn thing. You meant boiling water IQ as in Fahrenheit? Because boiling water IQ in Celsius is average by definition. "declare your units" :) From nanogirl at halcyon.com Mon Jun 2 05:02:46 2008 From: nanogirl at halcyon.com (Gina Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:02:46 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Software advice please Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have a query. So I'm going to be developing that http://nanohealththinktank.com/ website, which isn't up and running yet but I need some help trying to find the right forum software. What I am really looking for ~ is for it to be an easy to use visual WYSIWYG (remember that term), because I really don't want anything complicated or full of scripting this or that (really). I also don't need it to be one of those hosted forums or the dependency of it because I have my own domain and will be uploading via Dreamweaver. And while I am willing to pay for it, not anything unreasonable. As far as features go, I would like the usual modern message board where people can create their own profile and post comments, under various topics (I would like moderation controls). But I would also like there to be a chat room, but again not hosted, once I buy this stuff I want it to be mine forever. And a calendar or other interesting interactive features would be a nice bonus. Does anyone have any ideas for me? Thank you for any help you can provide : ) Gina "Nanogirl" Miller Nanotechnology Industries http://www.nanoindustries.com Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com This health stuff blog: http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/ Animation Blog: http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/ Craft blog: http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/ Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute http://www.extropy.org Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com "Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080601/fa8a41e6/attachment.html From kanzure at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 05:19:34 2008 From: kanzure at gmail.com (Bryan Bishop) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:19:34 -0500 Subject: [ExI] Software advice please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200806020019.34748.kanzure@gmail.com> On Monday 02 June 2008, Gina Miller wrote: > Hello everyone, I have a query. So I'm going to be developing that > http://nanohealththinktank.com/ website, which isn't up and running > yet but I need some help trying to find the right forum software. http://phpbb.com/ - but make sure you use recaptcha (spam prevention) http://mediawiki.org/ - but make sure you use recaptcha Other options: 360Board - http://www.360Board.com/ Aborior's Encore - http://www.aborior.com/encore/index.shtml ASP-DEv Free Forums - http://forums.asp-dev.co.uk/ (hosted) ASP Playground.NET - http://www.aspplayground.net BBBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net/ (hosted) BeeBoard - http://www.beebalm.com/beeboard.html BoardServer - http://www.web-site-tools.com/boardse.htm (hosted) Burning Board - http://www.woltlab.de/ CuteCast - http://www.artscore.net/ Cyphor - http://www.cynox.ch/cyphor/ DCForum - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforum.shtml DCForum+ - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforump.shtml Discus - http://www.discusware.com/discus/index.php DK3 Discussion board - http://www.dk3.com/boardsystem/ (hosted) Eboards4all - http://www.eboards4all.com/ (hosted) Edge-Board - http://www.edgeboard.net/ ezboard - http://www.ezboard.com (hosted) ForumExperts - http://www.forumexperts.com/ (hosted) FUD - http://fud.prohost.org FuseTalk - http://www.fusetalk.com/ GuestForum - http://www.guestforum.com/ (hosted) He Bulletin Board - http://www.hescripts.com/ IdealBB - http://www.idealscience.com/site/default.aspx iHailStorm - http://inca.cc.uic.edu/ihailstorm/ihailstorm.php ikonboard - http://www.ikonboard.com/ Invision Board - http://www.invisionboard.com/ InvisionFree - http://www.invisionfree.com/ (hosted) Jive Forums - http://www.jivesoftware.com/products.jsp LokwaBB - http://lokwa.farcom.com/ MercuryBoard - http://www.mercuryboard.com/ miniBB - http://www.minibb.net/ myBB - http://mybboard.com/ MyIkonboard - http://www.myikonboard.com/intro.php (hosted) NavBoard - http://navarone.f2o.org netVillage - http://www.netvillage.com/homeframeset.html (hosted) Netzbrett - http://www.subjective.de/en/netzbrett/index.php OpenBB - http://www.openbb.com PBLang - http://pblang.drmartinus.de/ phpBB - http://www.phpbb.com/ Phorum - http://phorum.org/ POP Forums - http://popforums.cliquesite.com/ ProBoards - http://www.proboards.com (hosted) RPGBoard - http://www.resonatorsoft.org/software/rpgboard/ RobBoard - http://borschevsky.virtualave.net/ SmartBB - http://www.smartbb.net/ SmarTek - http://corp.smartek.net/boards.cfm SMB - http://www.simplemessageboard.com/ Snitz Forums 2000 - http://forum.snitz.com/ Sporum - http://www.sporum.org/ SowiBB - http://sowibb.sourceforge.net/ StarForums - http://on.starblvd.net/meet/ (hosted) SuddenLaunch - http://www.suddenlaunch.com/ (hosted) Tag Board - http://www.tag-board.com/ (hosted) tribbyBoard - http://www.tribby.com/board/ UBB Classic - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbclassic/ UBB Threads - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbthreads/ UBB.x - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbx/ (hosted) UltraBoard - http://www.homepagetools.com/ultraboard/ (hosted) vBulletin - http://www.vbulletin.com/ VersiForum - http://www.versiforum.com/ VoyForums - http://www.voy.com/ (hosted) xsorbit - http://www.xsorbit.com/web/web_soft_messboard.html w-Agora - http://www.w-agora.net/en/index.php WebWiz - http://www.webwizguide.info/web_wiz_for ... p?mode=asp WWWBoard - http://www.scriptarchive.com/wwwboard.html XMB - http://www.xmbforum.com/ YaBB - http://www.yabbforum.com/ YaBB SE - http://www.yabb.info/ Yazd - http://yazd.yasna.com/ ZCom - http://zcom.frankoyer.com/cgi/index.cgi Zorum - http://www.zorum.com/ ZUBB - http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB > What I am really looking for ~ is for it to be an easy to use visual > WYSIWYG (remember that term), because I really don't want anything Try http://xstandard.com/ ? > complicated or full of scripting this or that (really). I also don't > need it to be one of those hosted ?forums or the dependency of it I agree. Avoid dependency issues. Especially dreamweaver or other commercial products. Also avoid frontpage. You could go with Open Office and use it to save HTML documents, but there are other options like xstandard.com and so on. > because I have my own domain and will be uploading via Dreamweaver. Woah, stop right there. You don't need to go as far as dreamweaver. Just go install a blogging system (wordpress) or a content management system, like drupal. http://wordpress.com/ http://drupal.org/ > And while I am willing to pay for it, not anything unreasonable. As You should pay at most $5/yr for the domain name, and the hosting could either be (1) a one-time $25 fee for an old computer, or (2) host with one of us. For example, if you're not expecting more than a few million hits a month, I could host you very easily. > far as features go, I would like the usual modern message board where > people can create their own profile and post comments, under various > topics (I would like moderation controls). But I would also like Those boards I listed above can do this. > there to be a chat room, but again not hosted, once I buy this stuff Chat rooms via IRC? http://irchelp.org/ You could run a server daemon process in the background, it's called 'ircd' (irc daemon), which does a server. This way anybody can connect through their own favorite clients, and you can provide a page on the site for people less fortunate (cgi irc gateway, easily Googleable). > I want it to be mine forever. And a calendar or other interesting I think drupal might do calendars. phpBB and other board systems definitely do. > interactive features would be a nice bonus. Does anyone have any > ideas for me? Thank you for any help you can provide : ) Hope that helps. - Bryan ________________________________________ http://heybryan.org/ From stathisp at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 06:04:29 2008 From: stathisp at gmail.com (Stathis Papaioannou) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:04:29 +1000 Subject: [ExI] The Total State In-Reply-To: <15A658C5E0B947699721C7E61566609C@ZANDRA2> References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> <15A658C5E0B947699721C7E61566609C@ZANDRA2> Message-ID: 2008/6/2 Gary Miller : > The obvious answer based upon media events and my talking to coworkers who > come from Latin America and third world countries is: > > Unless you are rich, powerful, or know exactly who the perpetrator is it is > difficult to get any kind of investigation much less justice in these > countries. Leaving the US out, corruption rates would seem to be positively correlated with incarceration rates. In corrupt countries the rich and well-connected bribe officials while in less corrupt countries the rich and well-connected persuade public officials that their crimes aren't that bad (i.e. they have better lawyers). In both cases, it's mainly the relatively poor who end up in prison. I doubt that it's the criminals who can manipulate the system at home who would be first in line to emigrate. -- Stathis Papaioannou From spike66 at att.net Mon Jun 2 05:47:42 2008 From: spike66 at att.net (spike) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:47:42 -0700 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings In-Reply-To: <62c14240806011914u18e06d26x982eb0108e0cb289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200806020614.m526EPjT013947@andromeda.ziaspace.com> > ...On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty ... > You meant boiling water IQ as in Fahrenheit? Because boiling > water IQ in Celsius is average by definition. > > "declare your units" :) Fahrenheit or celcius? I prefer to express mine in Rankine. Then one can have a boiling nitrogen IQ and still be smart as a whip. spike From nanogirl at halcyon.com Mon Jun 2 06:27:35 2008 From: nanogirl at halcyon.com (Gina Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:27:35 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Software advice please In-Reply-To: <200806020019.34748.kanzure@gmail.com> References: <200806020019.34748.kanzure@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FC7D48B3F6E4011BD19CDEE7F06A9B4@GinaSony> That's such a long list (I'm impressed) that it would take me a long time to research and differentiate them all. As for dependencies I should have been more clear. If you Google "forum software" you end up at a lot of places that actually host what would be the forum on their server, so it wouldn't really be yours. I don't want that as I have my own server (it has virtual domains so I have many under one) and I already use Dreamweaver to create and upload my current webpages (which works very well for me) so I would like a forum program that could plug into Dreamweaver easily or if separate wouldn't be a problem importing for use into. I already own the domain name (http://nanohealththinktank.com/) that I want to host my forum on, so also not an issue. I hope I am explaining all of this correctly... if I could get one in the box program that has forum boards and chat room that would be the ticket. I'm all set with the other parts... Gina "Nanogirl" Miller Nanotechnology Industries http://www.nanoindustries.com Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com This health stuff blog: http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/ Animation Blog: http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/ Craft blog: http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/ Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute http://www.extropy.org Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com "Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future." ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Bishop To: ExI chat list Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [ExI] Software advice please On Monday 02 June 2008, Gina Miller wrote: > Hello everyone, I have a query. So I'm going to be developing that > http://nanohealththinktank.com/ website, which isn't up and running > yet but I need some help trying to find the right forum software. http://phpbb.com/ - but make sure you use recaptcha (spam prevention) http://mediawiki.org/ - but make sure you use recaptcha Other options: 360Board - http://www.360Board.com/ Aborior's Encore - http://www.aborior.com/encore/index.shtml ASP-DEv Free Forums - http://forums.asp-dev.co.uk/ (hosted) ASP Playground.NET - http://www.aspplayground.net BBBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net/ (hosted) BeeBoard - http://www.beebalm.com/beeboard.html BoardServer - http://www.web-site-tools.com/boardse.htm (hosted) Burning Board - http://www.woltlab.de/ CuteCast - http://www.artscore.net/ Cyphor - http://www.cynox.ch/cyphor/ DCForum - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforum.shtml DCForum+ - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforump.shtml Discus - http://www.discusware.com/discus/index.php DK3 Discussion board - http://www.dk3.com/boardsystem/ (hosted) Eboards4all - http://www.eboards4all.com/ (hosted) Edge-Board - http://www.edgeboard.net/ ezboard - http://www.ezboard.com (hosted) ForumExperts - http://www.forumexperts.com/ (hosted) FUD - http://fud.prohost.org FuseTalk - http://www.fusetalk.com/ GuestForum - http://www.guestforum.com/ (hosted) He Bulletin Board - http://www.hescripts.com/ IdealBB - http://www.idealscience.com/site/default.aspx iHailStorm - http://inca.cc.uic.edu/ihailstorm/ihailstorm.php ikonboard - http://www.ikonboard.com/ Invision Board - http://www.invisionboard.com/ InvisionFree - http://www.invisionfree.com/ (hosted) Jive Forums - http://www.jivesoftware.com/products.jsp LokwaBB - http://lokwa.farcom.com/ MercuryBoard - http://www.mercuryboard.com/ miniBB - http://www.minibb.net/ myBB - http://mybboard.com/ MyIkonboard - http://www.myikonboard.com/intro.php (hosted) NavBoard - http://navarone.f2o.org netVillage - http://www.netvillage.com/homeframeset.html (hosted) Netzbrett - http://www.subjective.de/en/netzbrett/index.php OpenBB - http://www.openbb.com PBLang - http://pblang.drmartinus.de/ phpBB - http://www.phpbb.com/ Phorum - http://phorum.org/ POP Forums - http://popforums.cliquesite.com/ ProBoards - http://www.proboards.com (hosted) RPGBoard - http://www.resonatorsoft.org/software/rpgboard/ RobBoard - http://borschevsky.virtualave.net/ SmartBB - http://www.smartbb.net/ SmarTek - http://corp.smartek.net/boards.cfm SMB - http://www.simplemessageboard.com/ Snitz Forums 2000 - http://forum.snitz.com/ Sporum - http://www.sporum.org/ SowiBB - http://sowibb.sourceforge.net/ StarForums - http://on.starblvd.net/meet/ (hosted) SuddenLaunch - http://www.suddenlaunch.com/ (hosted) Tag Board - http://www.tag-board.com/ (hosted) tribbyBoard - http://www.tribby.com/board/ UBB Classic - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbclassic/ UBB Threads - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbthreads/ UBB.x - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbx/ (hosted) UltraBoard - http://www.homepagetools.com/ultraboard/ (hosted) vBulletin - http://www.vbulletin.com/ VersiForum - http://www.versiforum.com/ VoyForums - http://www.voy.com/ (hosted) xsorbit - http://www.xsorbit.com/web/web_soft_messboard.html w-Agora - http://www.w-agora.net/en/index.php WebWiz - http://www.webwizguide.info/web_wiz_for ... p?mode=asp WWWBoard - http://www.scriptarchive.com/wwwboard.html XMB - http://www.xmbforum.com/ YaBB - http://www.yabbforum.com/ YaBB SE - http://www.yabb.info/ Yazd - http://yazd.yasna.com/ ZCom - http://zcom.frankoyer.com/cgi/index.cgi Zorum - http://www.zorum.com/ ZUBB - http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB > What I am really looking for ~ is for it to be an easy to use visual > WYSIWYG (remember that term), because I really don't want anything Try http://xstandard.com/ ? > complicated or full of scripting this or that (really). I also don't > need it to be one of those hosted forums or the dependency of it I agree. Avoid dependency issues. Especially dreamweaver or other commercial products. Also avoid frontpage. You could go with Open Office and use it to save HTML documents, but there are other options like xstandard.com and so on. > because I have my own domain and will be uploading via Dreamweaver. Woah, stop right there. You don't need to go as far as dreamweaver. Just go install a blogging system (wordpress) or a content management system, like drupal. http://wordpress.com/ http://drupal.org/ > And while I am willing to pay for it, not anything unreasonable. As You should pay at most $5/yr for the domain name, and the hosting could either be (1) a one-time $25 fee for an old computer, or (2) host with one of us. For example, if you're not expecting more than a few million hits a month, I could host you very easily. > far as features go, I would like the usual modern message board where > people can create their own profile and post comments, under various > topics (I would like moderation controls). But I would also like Those boards I listed above can do this. > there to be a chat room, but again not hosted, once I buy this stuff Chat rooms via IRC? http://irchelp.org/ You could run a server daemon process in the background, it's called 'ircd' (irc daemon), which does a server. This way anybody can connect through their own favorite clients, and you can provide a page on the site for people less fortunate (cgi irc gateway, easily Googleable). > I want it to be mine forever. And a calendar or other interesting I think drupal might do calendars. phpBB and other board systems definitely do. > interactive features would be a nice bonus. Does anyone have any > ideas for me? Thank you for any help you can provide : ) Hope that helps. - Bryan ________________________________________ http://heybryan.org/ _______________________________________________ extropy-chat mailing list extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080601/c2631ae1/attachment.html From cetico.iconoclasta at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 12:18:44 2008 From: cetico.iconoclasta at gmail.com (Henrique Moraes Machado (CI)) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:18:44 -0300 Subject: [ExI] The Total State References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> <15A658C5E0B947699721C7E61566609C@ZANDRA2> Message-ID: <05dd01c8c4aa$ce5af110$fd00a8c0@cpdhemm> Gary> The obvious answer based upon media events and my talking to coworkers who > come from Latin America and third world countries is: > Unless you are rich, powerful, or know exactly who the perpetrator is it > is > difficult to get any kind of investigation much less justice in these > countries. > No investigation means no arrest, no conviction no incarceration, not even > a > crime occurrence recorded for statistic sake. > Also many criminals can make more money by joining the local police force, > or local warlord's militia accepting bribes, extorting money from people > running illegal businesses, and selling illegal drugs, money and > merchandise > confiscated as part of their official duties. > Of course if they keep the evidence and sell it they can't arrest the > prisoner and have them convicted for lack of evidence. No arrest no > incarceration. Of course they could kill the suspect but then wouldn't be > able to repeat the > confiscation of contraband next time. And in that case they still don't > show > up as an incarceration. > Also honest cops do not have a very long life expectency in these > countries. > In Mexico right being an honest law enforcement officer is like having a > bullseye on your back. >From Brasil here. Every word of this post is true. Unfortunately. From jonkc at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 2 13:45:12 2008 From: jonkc at bellsouth.net (John K Clark) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:45:12 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org><005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com><006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com><002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer><45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org><005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer><000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede><010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> <62c14240806011914u18e06d26x982eb0108e0cb289@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001e01c8c4b6$e809d6b0$0301a8c0@MyComputer> "Mike Dougherty" > You meant boiling water IQ as in Fahrenheit? No Kelvin. John K Clark From lcorbin at rawbw.com Tue Jun 3 05:13:48 2008 From: lcorbin at rawbw.com (Lee Corbin) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:13:48 -0700 Subject: [ExI] The Total State References: <108201c8c37a$feea3f10$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> <1212350818.16588.1919.camel@hayek> Message-ID: <117d01c8c538$be846fd0$6401a8c0@homeef7b612677> Fred writes > Can I strongly suggest that everyone slow down for a moment > and make sure that they are not coming conclusions that are not > supported. That's easier said than done! :-) In reality, of course, there are many different levels and extents to which "support" for some hypothesis or conclusion exists. But it's even more important to remember that at all times advancement proceeds evolutionarily, namely, that conjectures stand until refuted. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter how much justification can be mustered for an hypothesis or where it came from. What matters is whether it can be successfully assailed, and brought down by weight of evidence, quite the familiar axiom of Pan Critical Rationalism. > Consider that if persons in a lower socioeconomic level are > incarcerated at a higher rate than those at a different socioeconomic > level and if a demographic subgroup is disproportionally represented in > the lower socioeconomic level then members of the subgroup will likely > be incarcerated at a higher rate [even if they didn't commit more crime]. Very true. But the question immediately arises as to *how* significantly socioeconomic level by itself impacts incarceration rates---all other things being equal. And even if it turned out that it seemed to, would that factor automatically be more privileged than correspondingly well-studied factors on sensitive issues such as race, gender, or intelligence? The raw statistics in this case, of course, hardly help anyway since cause is not clear from effect, e.g., the criminal behavior and being poor could in some substantial part be caused by a third factor. > Thus merely looking any single factor alone might lead to unsubstantiated > conclusions. Thus the key indicator may not be a particular demographic > such as race or immigration status; it might be something else. Right. We can be almost sure that a number of factors will be involved, not just one, if for no other reason than that simple explanations (pace extreme bias against them from cultural sources) would have likely already been agreed upon, with the debate having shifted elsewhere. > I strongly suggest we all try to maintain high standards in our analysis. That's a pretty good idea! And also, we all should also maintain high standards in the care with which we write our posts; in fact, the more I think about it, it's pretty sensible to maintain high standards in almost everything, except for the purely frivolous. We could just have fun! In which case no effort at all would be needed! :-) > One thing I try to do is to see if I have incorporated some idea > such as racial and ethnic differences uncritically into my analysis > when other factors may provide a better understanding of the > issue under consideration. That is very true. In fact, we should try to avoid uncritically incorporating *any* suppositions into our analyses. I get the feeling from the wording of that, however, that perhaps racial and ethnic differences are explanations to be taken if not as a last resort, then at least to be appealed to only after more privileged ones. For example, let's suppose that we were a group of detectives debating whether or not one of our suspects were implicated in the crime and someone said, "One thing I suggest we do is to see if we have incorporated some idea such as DNA testing uncritically into our analysis when other factors may provide a better understanding of the issue under consideration." Again, that would be perfectly true. But it would also indicate a certain a priori skepticism on the part of the speaker towards DNA testing (which might or might not be warranted depending on the decade during which the investigation was taking place). In other words, why exactly did the speaker pick out DNA testing to use in an otherwise perfectly valid generalization? We must also always keep well in mind that some kinds of explanation hurt people's feelings more than do others. For example, in the 19th century religious sensibilities were often deeply offended by conjectures concerning geology and the age of the Earth. But in addition to merely hurting people's feelings, it can easily be the case that were the public to accept certain truths, it could have demoralizing effects. Conceivably, we could be better off not knowing certain things. Thus these two phenomena---our distaste towards hurting people's feelings and our fear of causing social turmoil ---can easily, even unconsciously, conspire to push certain kinds of conjecture or explanation out of consideration. But on a forum such as this, where the truth is the *only* thing we care about, such squeamishness definitely has to be put aside. Therefore we must always endeavor, at least here, to say exactly what we think could be the truth, regardless of other considerations, and let the criticism fall where it may. It's not easy, of course, but throughout history the path of progress has never been easy---or necessarily comfortable. Lee From sjatkins at mac.com Tue Jun 3 05:57:46 2008 From: sjatkins at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Samantha=A0_Atkins?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:57:46 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Fwd: [wta-talk] The Singularity - A Dissent References: Message-ID: <9FA3DD6C-3414-4006-AA88-BAB1B9C3E9E5@mac.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: Samantha Atkins > Date: June 2, 2008 10:56:20 PM PDT > To: World Transhumanist Association Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [wta-talk] The Singularity - A Dissent > > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > >>> >> >> In the possibility space of all AI's, there will be some that will >> manage our affairs better than we could. But the two problems are how >> to recognise which ones these will be, and how to prevent people from >> building other AI's that they believe will further their selfish >> interests. In the case of nuclear weapons only a few have access to >> them, and it is obvious even to a stupid person how dangerous they >> can >> be. Neither of these things is certain about AI research. > > I am rather depressed to admit that I find worries about AGI much > less compelling of late. The reason is that it seems more certain > to me by the day that humans are far too relatively stupid and bound > hopelessly by their evolutionary programming to pose much of a > threat of any sort of real transcendence or building that which will > transcend or is even the seed of such. We take too long to mature > only to decay too rapidly. We spend most of our energies, even many > of the best and brightest of us in exceedingly mundane activities > and concerns. Even the best of us seem quite poor at consistent > high quality thinking much less action on any significant scale of > cooperating individuals. Our organizations, no matter how high- > minded in stated intent, are mired in common monkey feces slinging > to such an extent that very little of real value gets done or can > get done. I am hoping it is a passing melancholy. But of late > this is very sadly how this all too human world of ours looks to > me. Perhaps it is only or mostly what I see in the mirror and > perhaps harshly. Perhaps many live on a different level. But I am > not seeing the evidence this is so and I would very much like to. > > - samantha > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080602/b1467a77/attachment.html From stefan.pernar at gmail.com Tue Jun 3 07:51:59 2008 From: stefan.pernar at gmail.com (Stefan Pernar) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:51:59 +0800 Subject: [ExI] Fwd: [wta-talk] The Singularity - A Dissent In-Reply-To: <9FA3DD6C-3414-4006-AA88-BAB1B9C3E9E5@mac.com> References: <9FA3DD6C-3414-4006-AA88-BAB1B9C3E9E5@mac.com> Message-ID: <944947f20806030051t5cdcefc1nc56e70bc33425d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Samantha Atkins wrote: > *From: *Samantha Atkins > *Date: *June 2, 2008 10:56:20 PM PDT > *To: *World Transhumanist Association Discussion List < > wta-talk at transhumanism.org> > *Subject: **Re: [wta-talk] The Singularity - A Dissent* > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > In the possibility space of all AI's, there will be some that will > > manage our affairs better than we could. But the two problems are how > > to recognise which ones these will be, and how to prevent people from > > building other AI's that they believe will further their selfish > > interests. In the case of nuclear weapons only a few have access to > > them, and it is obvious even to a stupid person how dangerous they can > > be. Neither of these things is certain about AI research. > > I am rather depressed to admit that I find worries about AGI much less > compelling of late. The reason is that it seems more certain to me by the > day that humans are far too relatively stupid and bound hopelessly by their > evolutionary programming to pose much of a threat of any sort of real > transcendence or building that which will transcend or is even the seed of > such. We take too long to mature only to decay too rapidly. We spend most > of our energies, even many of the best and brightest of us in exceedingly > mundane activities and concerns. Even the best of us seem quite poor at > consistent high quality thinking much less action on any significant scale > of cooperating individuals. Our organizations, no matter how high-minded in > stated intent, are mired in common monkey feces slinging to such an extent > that very little of real value gets done or can get done. I am hoping it > is a passing melancholy. But of late this is very sadly how this all too > human world of ours looks to me. Perhaps it is only or mostly what I see > in the mirror and perhaps harshly. Perhaps many live on a different level. > But I am not seeing the evidence this is so and I would very much like to. > > - samantha > > I could not agree more on your evolutionary thoughts but unlike you I see hope. I suggest you go and check Evolution's Arrow by John Stewart ( http://users.tpg.com.au/users/jes999/) - very uplifting and inspiring reading. Cheers, Stefan -- Stefan Pernar 3-E-101 Silver Maple Garden #6 Cai Hong Road, Da Shan Zi Chao Yang District 100015 Beijing P.R. CHINA Mobil: +86 1391 009 1931 Skype: Stefan.Pernar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080603/403c8b8e/attachment.html From kevinfreels at insightbb.com Tue Jun 3 16:50:29 2008 From: kevinfreels at insightbb.com (Kevin Freels) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:50:29 -0500 Subject: [ExI] Software advice please In-Reply-To: <7FC7D48B3F6E4011BD19CDEE7F06A9B4@GinaSony> References: <200806020019.34748.kanzure@gmail.com> <7FC7D48B3F6E4011BD19CDEE7F06A9B4@GinaSony> Message-ID: <48457655.8010907@insightbb.com> Gina Miller wrote: > > That's such a long list (I'm impressed) that it would take me a long > time to research and differentiate them all. As for dependencies I > should have been more clear. If you Google "forum software" you end up > at a lot of places that actually host what would be the forum on their > server, so it wouldn't really be yours. I don't want that as I have my > own server (it has virtual domains so I have many under one) and > I already use Dreamweaver to create and upload my > current webpages (which works very well for me) so I would like a > forum program that could plug into Dreamweaver easily or if separate > wouldn't be a problem importing for use into. I already own the domain > name (http://nanohealththinktank.com/) that I want to host my forum > on, so also not an issue. I hope I am explaining all of this > correctly... if I could get one in the box program that has forum > boards and chat room that would be the ticket. I'm all set with the > other parts... > > Gina "Nanogirl" Miller > Nanotechnology Industries > http://www.nanoindustries.com > Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com > This health stuff blog: http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/ > Animation Blog: http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/ > Craft blog: http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/ > Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org > Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute http://www.extropy.org > Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com > "Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future." > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bryan Bishop > *To:* ExI chat list > *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:19 PM > *Subject:* Re: [ExI] Software advice please > > On Monday 02 June 2008, Gina Miller wrote: > > Hello everyone, I have a query. So I'm going to be developing that > > http://nanohealththinktank.com/ website, which isn't up and running > > yet but I need some help trying to find the right forum software. > > http://phpbb.com/ - but make sure you use recaptcha (spam prevention) > http://mediawiki.org/ - but make sure you use recaptcha > > Other options: > > 360Board - http://www.360Board.com/ > Aborior's Encore - http://www.aborior.com/encore/index.shtml > ASP-DEv Free Forums - http://forums.asp-dev.co.uk/ (hosted) > ASP Playground.NET - http://www.aspplayground.net > BBBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net/ (hosted) > BeeBoard - http://www.beebalm.com/beeboard.html > BoardServer - http://www.web-site-tools.com/boardse.htm (hosted) > Burning Board - http://www.woltlab.de/ > CuteCast - http://www.artscore.net/ > Cyphor - http://www.cynox.ch/cyphor/ > DCForum - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforum.shtml > DCForum+ - http://www.dcscripts.com/dcforump.shtml > Discus - http://www.discusware.com/discus/index.php > DK3 Discussion board - http://www.dk3.com/boardsystem/ (hosted) > Eboards4all - http://www.eboards4all.com/ (hosted) > Edge-Board - http://www.edgeboard.net/ > ezboard - http://www.ezboard.com (hosted) > ForumExperts - http://www.forumexperts.com/ (hosted) > FUD - http://fud.prohost.org > FuseTalk - http://www.fusetalk.com/ > GuestForum - http://www.guestforum.com/ (hosted) > He Bulletin Board - http://www.hescripts.com/ > IdealBB - http://www.idealscience.com/site/default.aspx > iHailStorm - http://inca.cc.uic.edu/ihailstorm/ihailstorm.php > ikonboard - http://www.ikonboard.com/ > Invision Board - http://www.invisionboard.com/ > InvisionFree - http://www.invisionfree.com/ (hosted) > Jive Forums - http://www.jivesoftware.com/products.jsp > LokwaBB - http://lokwa.farcom.com/ > MercuryBoard - http://www.mercuryboard.com/ > miniBB - http://www.minibb.net/ > myBB - http://mybboard.com/ > MyIkonboard - http://www.myikonboard.com/intro.php (hosted) > NavBoard - http://navarone.f2o.org > netVillage - http://www.netvillage.com/homeframeset.html (hosted) > Netzbrett - http://www.subjective.de/en/netzbrett/index.php > OpenBB - http://www.openbb.com > PBLang - http://pblang.drmartinus.de/ > phpBB - http://www.phpbb.com/ > Phorum - http://phorum.org/ > POP Forums - http://popforums.cliquesite.com/ > ProBoards - http://www.proboards.com (hosted) > RPGBoard - http://www.resonatorsoft.org/software/rpgboard/ > RobBoard - http://borschevsky.virtualave.net/ > SmartBB - http://www.smartbb.net/ > SmarTek - http://corp.smartek.net/boards.cfm > SMB - http://www.simplemessageboard.com/ > Snitz Forums 2000 - http://forum.snitz.com/ > Sporum - http://www.sporum.org/ > SowiBB - http://sowibb.sourceforge.net/ > StarForums - http://on.starblvd.net/meet/ (hosted) > SuddenLaunch - http://www.suddenlaunch.com/ (hosted) > Tag Board - http://www.tag-board.com/ (hosted) > tribbyBoard - http://www.tribby.com/board/ > UBB Classic - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbclassic/ > UBB Threads - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbthreads/ > UBB.x - http://www.infopop.com/products/ubbx/ (hosted) > UltraBoard - http://www.homepagetools.com/ultraboard/ (hosted) > vBulletin - http://www.vbulletin.com/ > VersiForum - http://www.versiforum.com/ > VoyForums - http://www.voy.com/ (hosted) > xsorbit - http://www.xsorbit.com/web/web_soft_messboard.html > w-Agora - http://www.w-agora.net/en/index.php > WebWiz - http://www.webwizguide.info/web_wiz_for ... p?mode=asp > WWWBoard - http://www.scriptarchive.com/wwwboard.html > XMB - http://www.xmbforum.com/ > YaBB - http://www.yabbforum.com/ > YaBB SE - http://www.yabb.info/ > Yazd - http://yazd.yasna.com/ > ZCom - http://zcom.frankoyer.com/cgi/index.cgi > Zorum - http://www.zorum.com/ > ZUBB - http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB > > > What I am really looking for ~ is for it to be an easy to use visual > > WYSIWYG (remember that term), because I really don't want anything > > Try http://xstandard.com/ ? > > > complicated or full of scripting this or that (really). I also don't > > need it to be one of those hosted forums or the dependency of it > > I agree. Avoid dependency issues. Especially dreamweaver or other > commercial products. Also avoid frontpage. You could go with Open > Office and use it to save HTML documents, but there are other options > like xstandard.com and so on. > > > because I have my own domain and will be uploading via Dreamweaver. > > Woah, stop right there. You don't need to go as far as > dreamweaver. Just > go install a blogging system (wordpress) or a content management > system, like drupal. > > http://wordpress.com/ > http://drupal.org/ > > > And while I am willing to pay for it, not anything unreasonable. As > > You should pay at most $5/yr for the domain name, and the hosting > could > either be (1) a one-time $25 fee for an old computer, or (2) host > with > one of us. For example, if you're not expecting more than a few > million > hits a month, I could host you very easily. > > > far as features go, I would like the usual modern message board > where > > people can create their own profile and post comments, under various > > topics (I would like moderation controls). But I would also like > > Those boards I listed above can do this. > > > there to be a chat room, but again not hosted, once I buy this stuff > > Chat rooms via IRC? http://irchelp.org/ > You could run a server daemon process in the background, it's > called 'ircd' (irc daemon), which does a server. This way anybody can > connect through their own favorite clients, and you can provide a > page > on the site for people less fortunate (cgi irc gateway, easily > Googleable). > > > I want it to be mine forever. And a calendar or other interesting > > I think drupal might do calendars. phpBB and other board systems > definitely do. > > > interactive features would be a nice bonus. Does anyone have any > > ideas for me? Thank you for any help you can provide : ) > > Hope that helps. > > - Bryan > ________________________________________ > http://heybryan.org/ > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > You may want to also look into building a Joomla website and use a forum module. There's a steep learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it's a nice way to be able to manage content. Best of all, it's free and open source. www.joomla.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080603/b158e31f/attachment-0001.html From pgptag at gmail.com Tue Jun 3 18:15:36 2008 From: pgptag at gmail.com (Giu1i0 Pri5c0) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:15:36 +0200 Subject: [ExI] Software advice please In-Reply-To: <48457655.8010907@insightbb.com> References: <200806020019.34748.kanzure@gmail.com> <7FC7D48B3F6E4011BD19CDEE7F06A9B4@GinaSony> <48457655.8010907@insightbb.com> Message-ID: <470a3c520806031115x630ce23dw1880b700fa2b025d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Kevin Freels wrote: > > You may want to also look into building a Joomla website and use a forum > module. There's a steep learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, > it's a nice way to be able to manage content. Best of all, it's free and > open source. www.joomla.org Joomla is nice and reasonably easy to install and use. I still prefer Expression Engine, it comes with blogging and forum modules and many other things. Mediawiki is also easy to install and use. G. From estropico at gmail.com Wed Jun 4 00:56:47 2008 From: estropico at gmail.com (estropico) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 01:56:47 +0100 Subject: [ExI] ExtroBritannia's June event: Technology risks and the survival of humanity Message-ID: <4eaaa0d90806031756y11a347efr2be26aded3817688@mail.gmail.com> Technology risks and the survival of humanity: Is emerging technology more likely to destroy human civilisation or to radically enhance it? The next ExtroBritannia event is scheduled for Saturday the 14th of June 2008, 2pm-4pm. Venue: Room 539 (fifth floor), Birkbeck College, Torrington Square, London WC1E 7HX. The event is free and everyone's welcome. This meeting previews and summarises some of the discussions that will be taking place in July at the (four day long) conference "Global Catastrophic Risks" that will be taking place in Oxford in July (http://www.global-catastrophic-risks.com/) This is arguably the single most important topic that can ever be discussed! Risks worthy of review include: *) Runaway greenhouse effects and other drastic climate change - vs possible geo-engineering solutions and new, cleaner, sources of energy *) Nuclear wars provoked by catastrophic nuclear terrorism *) Supervolcanoes - potentially tamed by future super-strong nanomaterials *) A global pandemic of some horrible new disease *) Hazards from comets and asteroids *) The emergence of malevolent super-AI - vs the chance that super-AI will allow us to find better solutions to our existential risks Speakers who will lead the discussion include: Julian Snape - looking at technology risks and solutions from the point of view of both nanotechnology and possible collisions from NEOs (Near Earth Objects - comets and asteroids) John Dinsdale - looking at technology risks and solutions around Global Warming, Peak Energy (fossil fuel,nuclear) and EROEI (energy return on energy invested) Join the debate! Venue: Birkbeck College - Room 539, 5th floor, Main Building, Torrington Square (which is a pedestrian-only square), London WC1E 7HX ? MAP: http://www.bbk.ac.uk/maps The nearest tube station is Russell Square. Come out of the tube station and turn left, to walk west along Bernard St. Cross over Herbrand St then Woburn Place and keep walking westwards, on the north side of the square. Cross Bedford Way, and turn right into Thornhaugh St, then immediately left to enter Torrington Square through the pedestrian-only courtyard outside SOAS (the School of Oriental and African Studies). Veer right and you'll see the main entrance to Birkbeck College on the left as you walk up Torrington Square. Take the lift to the 5th floor and follow the signs to room 539. Discussion is likely to continue after the event in a nearby pub, for those who are able to stay. There's also the option of joining some of the UKTA regulars for drinks/lunch beforehand, starting c. 12.30, in "The Friend At Hand" pub which is situated behind Russell Square tube station on Herbrand Street. If it's your first ExtroBritannia look out for a copy of Ending Aging on display on our table. Keep an eye on our mailing list and blog for updates: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extrobritannia/ http://extrobritannia.blogspot.com/ Cheers, Fabio From andres at thoughtware.tv Wed Jun 4 03:03:19 2008 From: andres at thoughtware.tv (Andres Colon) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:03:19 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Thoughtware.TV: Technological Memes Message-ID: I have to recommend you to watch this talk by Susan Blackmore, on the subject of Memes and "temes". http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/watch/2191 "Psychologist/memeticist Susan Blackmore proposes that there's a new layer of "selfish", evolving replicators in the making: just like cognitive replicators (memes) came into existence at some point during genetic evolution, relying on the genetic layer for their continued existence/replication but also controlling it to a certain degree, now 'temes' (technological replicators) are emerging as a product of genetic-memetic evolution, to rely on both genes and memes for their survival/replication, while becoming more and more able to also exert control over both these layers." This kind contribution was added by Donjoe, community member at Thoughtware.TV Andres, President of Thoughtware.TV -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080603/9f245f2c/attachment.html From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 01:27:44 2008 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:27:44 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Technology advances replicators Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=5935.php ======================================= Posted: June 3, 2008 Prototype of machine that copies itself goes on show (*Nanowerk News*) Granted, this is not nanotechnology yet, but quite an interesting development nevertheless: A University of Bath academic, who oversees a global effort to develop an open-source machine that 'prints' three-dimensional objects, is celebrating after the prototype machine succeeded in making a set of its own printed parts. The machine, named RepRap , will be exhibited publicly at the Cheltenham Science Festival (June 4-8, 2008). RepRap is short for replicating rapid-prototyper; it employs a technique called 'additive fabrication'. The machine works a bit like a printer, but, rather than squirting ink onto paper, it puts down thin layers of molten plastic which solidify. These layers are built up to make useful 3D objects. [image: RepRap] RepRap has, so far, been capable of making everyday plastic goods such as door handles,sandals and coat hooks. Now, the machine has also succeeded in copying all its own 3D-printed parts. These parts have been printed and assembled by RepRap team member, Vik Olliver, in Auckland, New Zealand, into a new RepRap machine that can replicate the same set of parts for yet another RepRap machine and so on ad infinitum. While 3D printers have been available commercially for about 25 years, RepRap is the first that can essentially print itself. The RepRap research and development project was conceived, and is directed, by Dr Adrian Bowyer, a senior lecturer in engineering in the Faculty of Engineering & Design at the University of Bath, UK. Dr Bowyer said that: "These days, most people in the developed world run a professional-quality print works, photographic lab and CD-pressing plant in their own house, all courtesy of their home PC. Why shouldn't they also run their own desktop factory capable of making many of the things they presently buy in shops, too? "The possibilities are endless. Now, people can make exactly what they want. If the design of an existing object does not quite suit their needs, they can easily redesign it on their PC and print that out, instead of making do with a mass-produced second-best design from the shops. They can also print out extra RepRap printers to give to their friends. Then those friends can make what they want too." R ecently, Chris DiBona, Open Source Programs Manager at Google Inc, encouraged people to: "Think of RepRap as a China on your desktop." Sir James Dyson, Chief Executive of the Dyson Group, said: "RepRap is a different, revolutionary way of approaching invention. It could allow people to change the ergonomics of a design to their own specific needs." Dr Bowyer hopes people will come to the Cheltenham Science Festival and see both the 'parent' and the 'child' RepRap machines in action for the first time together. "RepRap is the most enjoyable research project I've ever run," he said. "Without the many talented and selfless volunteers the RepRap project has all round the world, it would have never succeeded so quickly." Complete plans for the prototype RepRap 3D printer and detailed tutorials to aid motivated amateurs (and professionals) in assembling one are available, free-of-charge, at the RepRap website (details below). The materials, plus the minority of parts that the machine cannot print, cost about ?300. All those non-printed parts can be bought at hardware shops or from online stores. Dr Bowyer and several of the other Reprap team members will be available to answer questions and exhibit the parent and child RepRap printers in operation at the Cheltenham Science Festival from June 4-8, 2008. Source: *University of Bath* From scerir at libero.it Thu Jun 5 14:18:09 2008 From: scerir at libero.it (scerir) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:18:09 +0200 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org><000601c74d36$14b5a5d0$80bd1f97@archimede><20070210182045.GF21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101031y61274711hde9a72a2eb2e31ba@mail.gmail.com><20070210184954.GI21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101223t1a3884bdqf57c6677ae95ee1e@mail.gmail.com><005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com><006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com><002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer><45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org><005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer><000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede> <010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> Message-ID: <003201c8c716$fcdd2b20$4ee51e97@archimede> Cold fusion seems to be a real "effect". But the question is: whatever the (unknown) reaction [1], is there a measurable *excess* energy? To my knowledge [2], this measurement (heat, radiation, etc.) isn't easy at all. [1] There is a number of previously unknown reactions, in that field, in example see: http://www.aip.org/pnu/2008/split/865-2.html [2] Somebody pointed out the same thing here (scroll down) if I remember well http://www.physorg.com/news131101595.html From thespike at satx.rr.com Thu Jun 5 17:55:58 2008 From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:55:58 -0500 Subject: [ExI] The New Milky Way Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080605124912.0240b848@satx.rr.com> from the blog of Adam Crowl, astronomer: The New Milky Way June 4th, 2008 The latest view of our Galaxy, the Milky Way, can be found at the Spitzer Infra-Red Space Telescope?s newspages here The New Galaxy seems we?re now officially a few galactic arms short - two arms based on old hydrogen-based maps aren?t evidenced by actual star-counts and thus were an artefact of the limitations of hydrogen-based radio astronomy. The Galaxy is still a BIG place, but it looks more like a pretty barred spiral galaxy than a relatively dull ?grand-design? flocculent spiral like it did in the old maps. But why are spiral arms the way they are? It?s a puzzle, but one astrophysicists have no end of good ideas about - and then along come some new surprises, like this one Black Hole Mass determines tightness of the Spiral seems the heftier the central Black Hole, the tighter the spiral arms. In our Local Group there are three big Spirals - ours, M31 (in Andromeda) and M33 (in Triangulum) - and the central Black Hole masses 4 million Solar masses (for the Milky Way), 180 million for M31, and just 1,500 for M33. M33 is a pretty loose spiral, though pretty. Andromeda?s M31 is tightly wound, from what we can see as M31 is tilted away from us. SO the Milky Way is somewhere between the two. But why the correlation? Dark Matter? Weird gravity lanes? Something in hyperspace? Who knows? And that?s why astronomy is both fun and worth doing From artillo at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 18:10:50 2008 From: artillo at comcast.net (artillo at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:10:50 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Air-powered cars Message-ID: <060520081810.11208.48482C2A000EA52700002BC82206999735010404079B9D0E@comcast.net> Strangely enough, this is the first I've heard of this: http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1260/ what a shame we in the USA have to wait for such a thing to come around. Seems like a really simple idea, maybe I'll build one myself LOL From jrd1415 at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 22:21:13 2008 From: jrd1415 at gmail.com (Jeff Davis) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:21:13 -0700 Subject: [ExI] dark matter (and -- shhhh! -- the F**** p-dox) Message-ID: Here's the deal. The talk about dark matter uses terms like "non-baryonic", and otherwise asserts that dark matter is distinctly different from regular matter. But I have yet to find any evidence for the it-ain't-regular-matter presumption. The entire case, as far as I have been able to determine, comes from the fact that the "matter" in question is "dark". That, unlike "regular" matter, it can't be seen; that it doesn't emit any light or other EM; that it doesn't do what "regular" matter does, ie form cosmic dust clouds, stars, planets, galaxies, etc. The only actual, substantive, tangible thing that it does -- and which is the totality of evidence (that I have been able to find) establishing it's existence -- is its gravitational effect. And as far as I can tell, this is just, well.., you know, "regular" gravity. Not some special sort of dark matter gravity. So what's up? Did I miss something? Do any of youse guys know something more about this "dark stuff" -- other than that its dark? Something that would rise to the level of actual evidence that "dark matter" is not just regular matter that is well, you know,... dark? [Shhhhhh. Avert you eye's. Scroll past this next bit real quick like. Don't read it. And don't say anything if you do.] In discussions of the Fermi paradox Eugen L and John Clark have forcefully taken the position that if technologically adept space-faring civilizations were abundant in the universe, then at least one would have invented Von Neuman probes, and that we would "see" evidence in the form of cosmic engineering. At the same time Robert B., in related discussions re cosmic engineering, ie computronium-mediated matrioshka brains, Dyson spheres, etc, has made the point that, for most efficient energy use, a prime location for such structures would be in the darkness between stars. There, the outermost of the nested shells --each shell harvests the "waste" energy radiated from the inner adjacent shell -- that last, outermost shell dumps its waste heat into the cosmos at a temperature as close as feasible to the cosmic background radiation. Wouldn't such engineered structures, so located, be exceedingly dark? So is it utterly unreasonable to point to the so-called "dark matter", currently calculated to comprise 85-90 percent of the mass of the universe, and say, "There's your engineered universe, guys. Complete with 10-15 percent "green" space."? I don't know. My pre-singularity chimpy brain can't figure it out. I even put on a snazzy white lab coat and stood near an array of brushed-aluminum-fronted lab instruments with digital displays that made little beeping sounds, but it didn't help. Enhance me, please. Best, Jeff Davis Aspiring Transhuman / Delusional Ape (Take your pick) Nicq MacDonald From amara at amara.com Thu Jun 5 22:43:58 2008 From: amara at amara.com (Amara Graps) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:43:58 -0600 Subject: [ExI] Cruisin' New Horizons Message-ID: In two days, New Horizons passes the orbit of Saturn (~10 AU). As you might recall, it was only the end of February 2007 (that's right, _last_ year), that it passed Jupiter (~5 AU). It's zippin' at 65,803 km/h. Only the two tiny Helios spacecraft (mid-70s 250,000 km/h) breaks the record as the fastest manmade objects ever flown. See the data for New Horizon's trajectory here: http://www.dmuller.net/newhorizons/ Just 2594 days and 17 minutes to Pluto! ;-) Amara -- Amara Graps, PhD www.amara.com Research Scientist, Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), Boulder, Colorado From spike66 at att.net Fri Jun 6 01:01:53 2008 From: spike66 at att.net (spike) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 18:01:53 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Air-powered cars In-Reply-To: <060520081810.11208.48482C2A000EA52700002BC82206999735010404079B9D0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200806060128.m561SXCM027764@andromeda.ziaspace.com> > ... On Behalf Of artillo at comcast.net > Strangely enough, this is the first I've heard of this: > > http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1260/ > > what a shame we in the USA have to wait for such a thing to > come around. > Seems like a really simple idea, maybe I'll build one myself > LOL Do the calcs first Artillo. They say a little more than one horsepower, then make the absurd claim of 70 mph for 120 miles. I can *guarantee you* those numbers are wrong. Perhaps they dropped a decimal point twice: I would believe a top speed of 7 miles per hour for 12 miles. Whenever one looks at the alternative means of hauling apes, one always comes away with a new respect for good old gasoline. spike From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 02:22:46 2008 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:22:46 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Air-powered cars In-Reply-To: <200806060128.m561SXCM027764@andromeda.ziaspace.com> References: <060520081810.11208.48482C2A000EA52700002BC82206999735010404079B9D0E@comcast.net> <200806060128.m561SXCM027764@andromeda.ziaspace.com> Message-ID: On 6/5/08, spike wrote: snip > > Whenever one looks at the alternative means of hauling apes, one always > comes away with a new respect for good old gasoline. Indeed. So what do we need for carbon neutral synthetic gasoline? At a recent conference a guy had worked out the numbers to suck carbon dioxide out of the air and combine it with hydrogen in a reverse combustion industrial operation. He got 79kWh/gallon. I have confidence in that number because the energy in a gallon of gasoline is about 38 kWh and this number is close to twice that. So if you want gasoline for about a dollar a gallon, you can do it on a megascale if you can get massive power in the penny or sub penny per kWh. If you assume 2kg/kW power sats and work the numbers backwards from penny a kWh, you can afford about $75/kg for the lift cost to GEO. That's easy with a space elevator, which takes about 15 cents of electricity and (if it cost $100 billion) a capital charge of $12.50/kg for an 800,000 ton per year delivery model. Reuseable heavy lift launch vehicles will do that for an incremental cost of about $300 a kg split between $1.5 billion for the rocket and $1.5 billion for operations. In 100 flights, a single rocket delievers 10,000 tons to GEO. ($3 billion/0.01 B kg) I have a proposal out to reduce this cost to at least 1/3 and perhaps 1/6. I don't want to make it public just yet, but if you feel up to checking assumptions and my math, ask and I will send you a copy. Keith Henson From kevin.l.holmes at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 03:59:27 2008 From: kevin.l.holmes at gmail.com (Kevin H) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:59:27 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Cruisin' New Horizons In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Amara Graps wrote: > > In two days, New Horizons passes the orbit of Saturn (~10 AU). As you > might recall, it was only the end of February 2007 (that's right, _last_ > year), that it passed Jupiter (~5 AU). It's zippin' at 65,803 km/h. Only > the two tiny Helios spacecraft (mid-70s 250,000 km/h) breaks the record > as the fastest manmade objects ever flown. > > See the data for New Horizon's trajectory here: > http://www.dmuller.net/newhorizons/ > > Just 2594 days and 17 minutes to Pluto! ;-) > > Amara Cool site, Amara. I used to track New Horizons on the NASA page ( http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/mission/whereis_nh.php) but then I got out of the habit for some reason. But, I definitely think it is a cool program and at last we'll see the last former planet up close, and I won't even have to wait until I'm thawed out from my cryogenic slumber :) Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080605/50fe0d52/attachment.html From kevin.l.holmes at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 04:23:41 2008 From: kevin.l.holmes at gmail.com (Kevin H) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 21:23:41 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Air-powered cars In-Reply-To: References: <060520081810.11208.48482C2A000EA52700002BC82206999735010404079B9D0E@comcast.net> <200806060128.m561SXCM027764@andromeda.ziaspace.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Keith Henson wrote: > On 6/5/08, spike wrote: > > snip > > > > Whenever one looks at the alternative means of hauling apes, one always > > comes away with a new respect for good old gasoline. > > Indeed. > > So what do we need for carbon neutral synthetic gasoline? > > At a recent conference a guy had worked out the numbers to suck carbon > dioxide out of the air and combine it with hydrogen in a reverse > combustion industrial operation. That's an interesting idea, but how exactly is this done? But I agree with the premise: gasoline is far more energy dense than electric batteries will ever be. This really hit home when I was reading about the proposed specs of the upcoming Chevrolet Volt. It's 16 kWh battery, when fully charged, gives it a 40 mile range. But it has a gasoline "range extender" that does nothing but recharge the battery, attaining a range of 640 miles. It's an excellent step, I think, which is what is going to be needed in an energy-scarce world, so that people can choose which way they want to fuel their cars based on existing prices. Right now, electricity is cheaper than gasoline per mile, but with a large number of electric vehicles on the road the price of electricity might go up. Ah well, no such thing as a free lunch. Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080605/c5085665/attachment.html From pgptag at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 09:18:07 2008 From: pgptag at gmail.com (Giu1i0 Pri5c0) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:18:07 +0200 Subject: [ExI] Conference Report: The Future of Religions - Religions of the Future - Second Life, June 4, 5 Message-ID: <470a3c520806060218o3307d81me03160e1202aa4a6@mail.gmail.com> Conference Report: The Future of Religions - Religions of the Future - Second Life, June 4, 5 http://transumanar.com/index.php/site/conference_report_the_future_of_religions_religions_of_the_future_second_li/ Full text of my talk with SL chatlog http://transumanar.com/index.php/site/my_talk_at_the_conference_the_future_of_religions_religions_of_the_future/ From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:19:22 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:19:22 -0700 Subject: [ExI] longevity dividend course OP-ED assignment 01 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060819o663fe396xe335aedf2b417fb7@mail.gmail.com> LIVING HEALTHIER AND LONGER Hey Kids , are you ready for anti-aging / regenerative medicine? "Get real Dad, be serious, act your age, get over your midlife crisis , there is no such as anti-aging medicine , you are going to die sooner than you think so quit wasting your time and focus on making your last years as comfortable as possible" has been a typical response. I respond "ANTI-AGING MEDICINE really exists and the market for doctors who open anti-aging medical spas is currently 50 billion dollars per year with each patient worth 4-20,000 dollars per year in products and services. " Recent episodes of "60 minutes, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and a Barbara Walters ABC Special on longevity" report that a certain Dr. Aubrey DeGrey is to this new frontier what David Suzuki and Al Gore are to environmentalism. The "Inconvenient Truth" is that the super wealthy are already the first customers, the investors and the owners and promoters of this entirely new form of medicine. Billions of real money are already committed to commercial products under development. What we are talking about is a medicine not just designed to rescue you from cancer, heart disease or degenerative conditions after they are diagnosed but a whole new system of medical care designed to prevent disease years or even decades before it might happen. Not everyone is convinced that even the garden variety anti-aging ideas are safe. Some recent headlines read.. "Antioxidant Vitamin E supplements may be deadly" and "Don't bank on anti-aging pills anytime soon - unless you're a worm" Some feel we have no business even poking around and tinkering with mother nature's secrets. Potential therapies have had a rough start here in the west but have taken root elsewhere. When stem cell technologies were banned in western countries, Chinese students just packed up their lap-tops and headed home to apply this new knowledge to a more receptive audience. This is how a cancer treatment called Gendicine originated. We in North America have a regulatory system that does not allow individual risk takers to move so rapidly to commercialize new medical technology. If computers and software had been regulated like medicine we would still be using Commadore 64's and playing Pong. Unwillingness to take risks drastically reduces the possibility of benefit. According to Dr. S. Jay Olshansky of the University of Illinois a "longevity dividend" of lower health care costs, increased savings and worker productivity would result from a modest deceleration in the rate of aging by about seven years, and adequate funding could produce "dramatic advances in preventive medicine and public health within the next few decades." I am Morris Johnson . At age 52 , after spending 35 years reading scientific medical research journals I do not just follow fads . I am neither an uncritical enthusiast nor an uninformed skeptic. I personally venture out within the bounds of my personal means to use the best science the world has to offer in attempt to catch and surf the longevity wave and secure for myself a personal longevity dividend. I have designed and do follow my own personalized healthy lifespan management program. Is the science real or bogus. As I write this I have just begun a 10 week course to study this thing called the "longevity Dividend". Tomorrow I will attend a conference entitled "Improving Human Health 2 ? Metabolic Syndrome". Let me be your guide to take the mystery out of the term "Longevity Dividend" and lets explore together the promises and risks for not just baby boomers and their children but society as a whole. For example, how might longer healthier lives affect the economics of pensions, jobs and family relationships and medical care Systems. This 10 part series will bring you my findings , pose questions and perhaps add an opinion or two, if space permits. You may send your feedback "attention Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/2a039832/attachment.html From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:21:58 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:21:58 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 02 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060821h4af07989ha009be78a44a0b58@mail.gmail.com> 02-Healthy Demographics To accept "groundhog day" and succumb to death at the statistically predicted age of 85 or to defy statistics to keep motoring on , that is the question; whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of social persecution for daring to hope to be able to flaunt youthful beauty at 113?.or by taking up arms against aging to transform it into "steady-state self-directed long-term self-improvement project". "Holy purple shades of Hamlet's ghost Dad" respond my kids. "Are you going to make us listen to the statistics and demographics of how all you baby boomers with your funky old man diseases want to flush away your 53 trillion or so dollars of pension fund money and enslave our kids to satisfy your vain attempt to perpetuate your denial of the inevitability of your certain and timely death? " "Yes", I respond "this family conference is about the demographics of aging". WE ARE THE GENERATION OF OLD PEOPLE WHO WILL RULE THE 21ST CENTURY, according to Ken Dychtwald Ph.D. in AGE POWER. We have a responsibility to learn how to use our power wisely! Once we lived in fear of global starvation from uncontrollable population growth. Now China, Europe, Eastern Europe and Australia are all racing towards zero population growth as they reduce infant mortality, infectious disease and use planned parenthood. People only reduce family size after the threat of disease , malnutrition and racial conflict diminishes. A new challenge to a healthy lifespan, Metabolic Syndrome, has become an epidemic with over 25% of North Americans affected. "Improving Human Health-08" presenters define it as systemic insulin resistance resulting from a combination of (even modest ) obesity ("toxic waist ") , chronic silent inflammation, high triglycerides, high blood pressure, and impaired glucose tolerance. Good genes or regular physical activity can mask it but diabetes, atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease, stroke and cancer are its ultimate consequences. High risk groups include aboriginals whose genetics were never designed to cope with the rapidly digested carbohydrates of a supersized "McDiet". Metabolic syndrome develops most rapidly in people with depression, lack of self asteem, or a feeling of lack of control over personal circumstances. Young adults whose lifestyle also includes smoking, drinking, risky recreational drug combinations , a poor quality diet, and sedentary lives may be the first generation since 1850 to reverse the trend towards increased longevity. Researchers suggest the "Mediterranean food pyramid", regular exercise, low glycemic index (slowly digestible) carbohydrates and certain foods and nutritional supplements as countermeasures ( http://www.machineslikeus.com/cms/news/the-secret-long-life-may-not-be-genes). What really drives healthy longevity gains is education and disposable income in that order. Educated affluent boomers seek out solutions without regard to cost while a disproportionate number of the lower socioeconomic groups , unsure of a solution do nothing . Ironically, those with less ability to buy into the new health technologies are also destined to have to remain healthy enough to become the caregiver population for the affluent boomers. Statistics show we are living longer at the average rate of 2.5 years every decade and this longevity gain is accelerating despite the growing gap between subpopulations. The gap between Healthspan (healthy vibrant productive lifespan) and total lifespan will replace poverty as the scourge of the 21st century (http://www.alternet.org/story/84396/). We must remain healthy, active and part of society and like the "one hoss shea" only fall apart the very instant before death. Failure to do this means physically and mentally frail elderly boomers will be 35-70% of the population in 2050. This will be an absolutely intolerable "dependency ratio" for the young to bear. Suppose if you will, that problem and solution to this "historically insoluble enigma" are one and the same. Pensioners and pension fund owners have 53 trillion reasons to replace palliative medicine with regenerative medicine. A world that can spend trillions on old-fashioned wars can just as easily spend trillions in a "War against Aging". Imagine if a war on premature death could produce extended longevity. Just as the computers of 2008 would have been magic in 1908, the medicine of 2108 after the "War against Aging" has nearly a century under its belt may be nothing short of a magic show. Can we "bootstrap it" with what we know today well enough to make it to that show regenerated instead of frail. Every war has to have a "flashpoint" to start. Fortunately, a "War for Healthy Longevity" can ignite from any of 7 scientifically accepted Pandora's "tinder" boxes. In part 3 I will detail what we think we know that can be used to make our healthspan equal to our lifespan. You may send your feedback attention "Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/7a9e9efe/attachment.html From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:23:59 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:23:59 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 03 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060823i20c2d215j2ef650ef76861817@mail.gmail.com> 03-Healthy Biology All living things have metabolism, metabolism continually causes damage , damage eventually causes pathology , pathology is disease, and leads to aging then death. Mother nature made biology so complicated so every generation would have no choice but to grow up, reproduce, nurture offspring and then get dead as fast as possible to make room for the next go round. "You know what dad, We think there's hope for you yet. Let's see you weasel out of this one". "To do justice to the topic this time, the kids are going to see dad sweat , by golly", says I. Metabolism is the incredibly complex network of molecular and cellular processes that keep us alive. Gerontologists study metabolism. Pathology is the network of molecular processes that kill us. Geriatricians study disease pathology. A whole new breed of anti-aging specialists study and treat the missing link, damage. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23358964/ documents how some simple regenerative measures are now part of integrative (combining of all possible options into a carefully planned package) medicine. You can turn an old car into a vintage classic car by assessing the condition then systematically repairing the old damage , then continue watching for new damage and fix that too. Why can't you do the same with people? That's the "engineering approach" proposed by Dr Aubrey de Grey, founder of the Methusalah Foundation., Cambridge , UK. He has raised 10 million dollars of funding in the last 2 years and awards funding for research towards creating a replicatable animal model, the Rejuvenated Robust "Methusalah" Mouse (MM). Simply put take a mouse as old as a 55 year old human (in mouse years) and give it 3 times its remaining life expectancy , all in good health.. If you use these same age retarding techniques on people you should halve the rate of damage and add 30 extra healthy years to the 30 expected for a 55 year old and raise total healthspan by 20% overall. Aubrey sees damage repair as the critical control points that reduce the metabolic hazards to an acceptable level and manage the risk of diminished quality of the finished product, lifespan.. Aubrey has segmented the damage into 7 categories: junk inside cells, junk outside cells, too few cells, too many cells, chromosome mutations, mitochondria (energy producing intracellular organelles) mutations and protein crosslinks. For each category there is a proposed repair strategy. The sum of these strategies is termed "engineered negligible senescence" (SENS)[ http://richardjschueler.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=56847 ] . Later in this series I will discuss the safety and efficacy of specific current therapies as they relate to the "seven deadly sins of metabolism". These interventions are at various stages of research, development and clinical and every day commercial application. Aubrey states that you don't have to repair all the damage at once. If you start at the "biological age" of 55 and select the most critical areas and fix HALF THE DAMAGE you should double the total healthspan and raise the remaining healthspan 5 times. The goal for a commercial regenerative medicine industry would be to reduce the remaining damage each time therapy is undertaken and implement increasingly more effective repair. Eventually repair happens faster than new damage occurs. FYI-Watch the BBC TV series " How to Build a Human 4of4 - Forever Young (60 minutes) 1/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ZAhdSidzk 2/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=necHabLN37Q 3/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cAIPTPIL7A 4/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qqoT1oCEBI 5/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LObrLpV8ric 6/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkf23Nn9qX0 Aubrey has coined the term "Longevity Escape Velocity" as the rate at which rejuvenation therapies must improve in order to hope to outpace the accumulation of damage they cannot currently fully repair. Compare this to manned flight, an insoluble problem since the dawn of civilization until 1903. Once the Wright Brothers made the first proven flight, everything was copied and improved upon until today we can fly just about anything anywhere. For a sneak peek into the future see : http://transcurve.net/blog/aaron/10-reasons-you-will-live-to-1000. My next piece will detail the issues surrounding the bioethics debate about purposefully increasing healthy longevity. You may send your feedback attention "Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/11fbbddf/attachment.html From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:25:18 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:25:18 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 04 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060825ga1e0ff8habbf243ecdc43618@mail.gmail.com> 04-Healthy Ethics "Trust me we know what's good for you dad and we'll always do the (ethical) right thing". I know you mean well, but if what you deem ethical and right for me is blocked by legislation or regulation; will you let me die? The Readers" Digest thesaurus of synonyms calls moral, decent, virtuous, upright, proper, fitting, correct, just, fair, aboveboard and kosher "ethical" and underhanded, shady, improper, unfair, lowdown, nefarious, unbecoming, unseemly, indecorous, immoral and indecent "unethical. " Ethics are not fixed and can be skewed by "moral hazard", the punishment we get or cause for doing good deeds. Moral hazard occurs when there are more beneficiaries to death than life. The value of a "Quality Adjusted Life Year" (QALY)[mathematically derived value of a year of perfect health] for a patient determines if an HMO or public payor will contribute and how much towards a medical good or service. For example a simple vaccination for HPV when allowed under medicare can have a $100,000 /QALY value if it is deemed that the population based average risk of death from cervical cancer is too low. Then a "sensitivity analysis" can be done and criteria which modify the accessibility are developed so that the adjusted QALY value is reduced to an acceptable number, usually less than $50,000/QALY saved. Ethics of institutionalized Ageism is demonstrated thusly: If a youth dies it's a loss of potentially productive life ; If a frail elderly person dies it's a blessing to see them free of pain and suffering. "Living Wills" are spun to be a way for the frail or terminally ill to relieve health care providers of the need for heroic or long term end of life palliative measures. The moral hazard is that the last year of life is extraordinarily expensive. The payor saves by being able to redistribute the savings to other covered services or shareholders. In 2008 in Saskatchewan when 43.7% of every tax dollar went to healthcare, the average cost of all the health care goods and services was $4,360 per person. Saving $5-30,000 by socially accepted forms of passive euthanasia VS allowing expensive experimental, risky heroic long shot measures which may provide insights into how to better treat the next person show how ethics and moral hazard can collide as an ethical conundrum. Canada's "progressive licencing" for new pharmaceuticals is a step towards managing this hazard. ( http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg19826523.800-canada-to-rele ase-trial-drugs-to-patients.html ). Our culture does not allow "honor killing" within families or maintaining a one child policy and selecting for that child to be a son by killing newborn girl babies however, a Seattle Washington man ,Timothy Garon, who used State Law approved medical marijuana to ease his pain from advanced hepatitis was knocked him off the elegibility list for a liver transplant and left to die recently. Some say taxpayer paid universal medicare creates an incentive to act irresponsibly because the safety net will catch you. Cost shared coverage of preventative care should yield savings over the total life-cycle of a patient. http://www.fightaging.org/archives/001479.php briefly considers the economic costs Vs benefits of the longevity dividend Let me set out some of the common arguments against enhancing adult longevity as set down by George Dvorsky in his presentation to the "securing the Longevity Dividend" meeting. George states that critics contend that death has value by giving meaning to life, providing for the need for morality, allowing for self-sacrifice, preventing excessive risk aversion, making beauty exist and providing a vital imperfection. Some say that it would be cost prohibitive, people would have unequal access and that distribution would be unfair. Some say the motivations are questionable, are of no known social good, produce anti-social behavior, there are more pressing concerns for society to deal with (global security and geopolitical gamesmanship) and that individual actions are against the collective best interest (http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/anissimov20080513/ ). The wealthiest 1 percent of USA households household income averages 190 times the national average , own 34.3% of the nations wealth and include the Forbes 400 whose 2006 wealth was 1.25 Trillion dollars. This is more than the combined wealth of the bottom 90 percent. Power and money trump ethics so how does the rest of society manage the moral hazard of undeniable access to lifespan enhancing and extending and enhancement therapeutics ( http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/cebys08/ ) for some and QALY limited access for everybody else? My next piece will provide details of life extending therapeutics which have a wide range of accessibility, cost and proof of efficacy. Some have been available for years and some are years from the commercial market. This series was meant to help you plan for the future based by developing your own personal pro-health and longevity strategic action plan. You may send your feedback attention "Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/c59801fe/attachment-0001.html From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:26:54 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:26:54 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 05 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060826o18563e16ha493808becd6402d@mail.gmail.com> 05-Healthy Medicine -Safe and Efficacious Remember dad you can't counsel people to take a whole bunch of meds like a doctor , pharmacist or nurse practitioner or tell them they'll live to 120 if they take x+y+Z therapies?got that! Absolutely, but I can point to specialty anti-aging and regenerative medical associations such as www.worldhealth.net , list some mainstream food, supplement and herbals, detail the connection between these and the 7 deadly sins of biology. The scientific literature describes the processes of metabolism which lead to pathology. Epigenetics modulators (gene switches) include dietary folic acid, B12 and cysteine . Orphan Therapies such as "hyperbaric hydrogen therapy " and DMSO (dimethy-sulfoxide) and cannabinoids have missed timely commercialization for unethical, non-scientific reasons. Over 300 books on longevity and aging were published in 2007 ( http://science-library.blogspot.com/2007/12/books-on-aging-longevity-published-in.html ). Some therapies against the "seven deadly sins" are very expensive and many are experimental, with the potential for long-term unforeseen negative consequences. There are some decent products out there and these will improve as more competition enters this marketplace. My personal view on this matter is that "I'm 52, my wife is deceased from MS, my kids are pretty much on their own and I have done all the things society expects of a human so what have I really got to loose but "retirement". The potential upside gain for undertaking calculated high risk health management practices is extra decades to achieve things I could never have hoped to accomplish in a normal healthspan or lifespan. I do believe I own what is left of my life for better or worse. I take great offence to any government regulator who somehow claims to own custodianship over my body or some kind of legal right to prevent entrepreneurial health management interventions telling me what I can or cannot consider safe or efficacious personal preventative and restorative health management protocols." To defeat an enemy with 7 faces, you must first understand everything that makes them tick.. http://www.veoh.com/videos/v8255881AP8Z7XH8&source=embedVideo http://blog.methuselahfoundation.org/2007/09/sens3_report_towards_mitochond_1.html 1-Cell loss, cell atrophy requires Cell therapy and perhaps dietary telomerase activators such as a milkvetch astralagus extract (OTC in the USA) and phase 2 antioxidant enzyme inducers such as ones from crucifers like broccoli. 2-Junk outside cells requires Vaccination causing internalisation 3-Protein crosslinks requires Link-breaking molecules/enzymes Examples: Rx L-guanidine and OTC carnosine and experimental Rx ALT711 for cataracts, cardiovascular and connective tissue hardening. 4-Death-resistant cells require Cell death gene therapy, vaccination with for example Gendicine P53 gene encapsulated in a cold virus for cancers. 5-Mitochondrial mutation require Nuclear versions of 13 genes and some supportative/preventative nutritional metabolism optimizers such as acetyl-l carnitine and alpha lipoic acid.and antioxidant anti-inflammatories such as caryophyllene and CBD from hemp and humulene from hops.. Mitochondria are the easiest to support through supernutrition and the results are immediate and dramatic. 6-Junk inside cells require Enzymes from soil bacteria/fungi or similar technology to digest and excret to clean house. 7-Nuclear [epi]mutations (only cancer matters) requires novel technologies such as "WILT": telomerase/ALT knockout plus periodic stem cell reseeding I am not going to deal with the leading edge countermeasures like lab grown implantable organs, stem cell based internal tissue regeneration, robotic surgery, self-service telemedicine, nanobots and devices implanted for various purposes, or the implications of computational science (Artificial General Intelligence) based stuff but be assured its coming too. To see Microsoft's vision of the future of personal health concept (office labs) see- http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/watch/1727 June 27/28/29 in Los Angeles a pre-conference "Aging 2008" and the "Understanding Aging" UCLA conference will present updated research supporting the issue of treating aging as a curable disease. http://mfoundation.org/aging2008. . Now for some simple but effective things anybody can do. Practice Caloric Restriction (CR) ?consume 30% less calories then that recommended for your height and weight - until you are below your optimal BMI (body mass index) weight. Resveratrol from botrytis infected mouldy grapes made into juice/wine/purified extract is the new alternative way to simulate CR. GlaxoSmithKline just bought Sirtis pharmaceuticals to push this one as a crutch for those who don't want to go the CR route. Modifying the siruin gene expression is sound but it is known that those stinking fat cells still keep exuding free radicals and provide the gunk that drives 5 of the 7 deadly metabolic killers so resveratrol without CR is unwise http://www.machineslikeus.com/cms/news/living-longer-its-better-go-hungry-exercise. In addition, consume a wide variety of antioxidants and anti-inflammatory foods and supplements. Reliance on one "miracle ingredient" is the Achilles heel of modern medicine.. Different organs, and cells rely on individual nutrient combinations so diversity and balance are the way to go. Add salmon, blueberries, yogurt, fish oil, broccoli sprouts, Hemp, flax , a broad range of spices, tomatoes, purple grape juice regularly to whatever you eat now and cut back on fatty meats. and pick low glycemic index carbs http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/health/13brain.html .Your body will take what it needs and will dispose of the rest.. Very soon the genomic, proteinomic and metabolomic people will pull together your personal genome based diet but you've got to keep it together till then. To learn more about the nutritional aspects of health download the PPT'S of presentations at Agwestbio's "Improving Human Health 2: Metabolic Syndrome (pre-diabetes)" which I attended April 24/25 2008. Go to http://www.agwest.sk.ca/events/IHH08/IHH08_presentations.htm and use "ihh08" for ID and "metabolic" for password?.a little gift to ourselves courtesy of myself for sharing access and the Saskatchewan Ministry of Agriculture and the Government of Saskatchewan for funding the conference. All these wanna-be vibrant boomers are expected to avoid boredom by going back to school and getting second and third careers, all the while collecting pensions. In the next part we will question if these expectations are going to meet with a speedbump or two. You may send your feedback attention "Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/c488ccbd/attachment.html From jonkc at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 6 15:26:58 2008 From: jonkc at bellsouth.net (John K Clark) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:26:58 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org><000601c74d36$14b5a5d0$80bd1f97@archimede><20070210182045.GF21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101031y61274711hde9a72a2eb2e31ba@mail.gmail.com><20070210184954.GI21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101223t1a3884bdqf57c6677ae95ee1e@mail.gmail.com><005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com><006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com><002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer><45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org><005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer><000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede><010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer> <003201c8c716$fcdd2b20$4ee51e97@archimede> Message-ID: <001e01c8c7e9$c6f12920$0301a8c0@MyComputer> "scerir" > Cold fusion seems to be a real "effect". Oh the effect is real alright, the question is can the effect best be explained by physics or by psychology and the study of human gullibility and wishful thinking. You included 2 links, the first one http://www.aip.org/pnu/2008/split/865-2.html Is interesting but I've already read it and has absolutely nothing to due with cold fusion so I don't know why you mentioned it. It's about hot stuff, very hot indeed; a beam of extremely energetic neon ions crashed into beryllium. Hot hot hot. The second link http://www.physorg.com/news131101595.html is indeed about cold fusion. It says "reporters from six major newspapers and two TV studios" were interested but unsurprisingly no reputable science journal was. It's never a good sign when TV reporters are interested in something but scientists are not. So, esteemed professor Homer J Bumblefuck joins the long list of similar nonentities that have reported cold fusion over the last nineteen years, every single one of which has fallen into a well deserved black hole of oblivion. Think I'm wrong this time? Fine, I will repeat the bet I've made so many times before: If a pro cold fusion article (not counting Muon-catalyzed cold fusion) appears in Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters before June 6 2009 I will send you $1000, is it doesn't you will sent me $100. Come on, it's generous odds and easy money! John K Clark From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 15:28:27 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:28:27 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 06 Message-ID: <61c8738e0806060828xb51af16m3d159962e7d52dd0@mail.gmail.com> 06-Healthy Pensions "Bubble , bubble toil and trouble, cauldron boil and cauldron bubble?3 dancing witches and all that", says I. "Oh quit with the Shakespeare dad, we get the point that pensions are a chaotic witches brew of 207 Trillion USD (2006 stats) global economy of equities (54 T$) , debt, bonds (67 T$), hedge funds, sovereign wealth funds (3 T$) mutual funds, funds of funds, and derivatives (including 50 trillion of credit derivatives) just to name a few." "And yes Dad, we know coasting into the sunset on "Freedom 55" is something you want no part of; You'd rather cash in all your pensions before 65, buy a cryonics (storage of a body in liquid nitrogen) contract with a company like Alcor ( http://www.alcor.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/alcor/public/InfoRequest.cgi ) as well as buy into some means of preserving your body from just before death so that when as you hope they thaw you out your mind and body are not beyond repair, even with technologies of the future and get Re-booted so to speak." "Sure kids that's it for me but I must deal with the little matter of keeping pensions liquid and funded so that the vast majority of the other 6 billion people who might simply want to live longer and healthier can get the freedom they bought before any funeral or un-funeral interferes." All 3 kinds of pension (defined contribution , defined benefit and money purchase) funds own all sorts of equities as well as alternative investments, such as infrastructure, hedge funds and venture capital There is a closed payback Loop created when pension funds own health care industry corporate stocks. The wealth of the elderly investors claws back profits as health care consumers pay for health care services from their pensions I present the notion of reducing the hazard of pension investments by ensuring the pension funds invest ethically into technologies and services which reduce unhealthy lifespan, or increase total lifespan. Actuaries already agree that without corrective actions , off the scale longevity will crater payouts if pension funds remain invested as they are now. Some suggest that a root cause analysis would say the problem is that retirement age is too low in relation to lifespan. A healthy extremely aged workforce who continue to contribute as they earn is suggested as the answer. Those who earn too little or are unable or unwilling to work will then be a manageable unfounded liability. A key question is how soon and how intensively a "War on Aging" will be integrated into the global business economy. Billions are already at play but to sustain global scale pension payouts its going to have to ramp up to tens of trillions. Given that commercialization is hindered by risk aversion by regulators and a generally under-informed apathetic population , time is definitely of the essence to engage a process of public education. Today in Saskatchewan we are at a point of opportunity. With perhaps 10 pretty secure years to go for the "energy bubble" we have to find sufficient incentives to derail the dangerously blindered re-investment by energy only into energy. Acceleration of diversification to mate the capital of the Estevan, Weyburn, Lloydminister , Northern Saskatchewan tar sands and all the other energy hot spots with the Science , technology and incubator start-up clusters such as in the Saskatoon region might be a good place to start. To get the process going perhaps there will have to be some initial "herding , clubbing and baiting" but the smart money should catch onto ways to justify these "longevity dividend" products and services as high risk but fundamentally sound investment options. Like it or not, governments ought to feel ethically bound to aid in greasing the tunnel and loading and pointing the policy cannon. Government might mandate an alternative to an oil/energy production tax or royalty grab in the form of an involuntary private investment into an industry directed targeted "Longevity Dividend" Sovereign Wealth series of ethical funds. These funds might be mandated to pay both the investors and the public treasury dividends that would help to pay for the whole issue of self-directed preventative health planning, implementation and longevity enhancement for those not fortunate enough to be in the top 1% of the wealthy. Keeping those oldsters happy and healthy and productive might prevent a potential "age war" or as I have put it to my kids, "the day they put a bounty on old people." The next pieces on medicare reform, disability, emigration/immigration/baby-making and inter-generational transfer will round out my commentary and fill in some gaps left in the other pieces. I hope you have checked out some of the links along the way as they substantiate that this is not a fictional crack-pot literary effort but a serious thinking through of an issue I feel may be new to many of you . You may send your feedback attention "Pharmer Mo" at extropian.pharmer at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20080606/7263de27/attachment.html From scerir at libero.it Fri Jun 6 18:18:06 2008 From: scerir at libero.it (scerir) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:18:06 +0200 Subject: [ExI] [extropy-chat] Elvis Sightings References: <20070210113413.GQ21677@leitl.org><000601c74d36$14b5a5d0$80bd1f97@archimede><20070210182045.GF21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101031y61274711hde9a72a2eb2e31ba@mail.gmail.com><20070210184954.GI21677@leitl.org><3cf171fe0702101223t1a3884bdqf57c6677ae95ee1e@mail.gmail.com><005101c74da7$2168ec30$0a054e0c@MyComputer><7.0.1.0.2.20070211111725.0220a620@satx.rr.com><006801c74e0c$b600d370$59044e0c@MyComputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070211130148.02318940@satx.rr.com><002e01c74ec3$ee5eadc0$0f0b4e0c@MyComputer><45D09A16.4020908@goertzel.org><005a01c74ef1$0bc8eab0$3c064e0c@MyComputer><000301c8c34d$4877fba0$a9e61e97@archimede><010b01c8c3f6$735e7340$0301a8c0@MyComputer><003201c8c716$fcdd2b20$4ee51e97@archimede> <001e01c8c7e9$c6f12920$0301a8c0@MyComputer> Message-ID: <008201c8c801$ab77d960$a6e61e97@archimede> John K Clark: > You included 2 links, the first one > http://www.aip.org/pnu/2008/split/865-2.html > Is interesting but I've already read it and has absolutely nothing > to due with cold fusion so I don't know why you mentioned it. Just to show something simple and previously unknown. We do not know everything. > Think I'm wrong this time? Fine, I will repeat the bet I've > made so many times before: If a pro cold fusion article > (not counting Muon-catalyzed cold fusion) appears in > Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters before > June 6 2009 I will send you $1000, is it doesn't you will > sent me $100. Come on, it's generous odds and easy money! I hope that Nature or Science would publish "cold fusion" experiments showing a process like D + D -> T + n D + D -> He3 + p D + D -> He4 + hv D + D -> something else To my knowledge there are experiments showing, i.e., the production of He4, *but* there are technical (calorimetric) problems when they measure the excess heat/energy and the resulting radiation. So, once again, the question seems to be: 1) is excess heat/energy really measured ? 2) is excess heat/energy due to a fusion process? are there neutrons, protons, or He4? As long as they do not measure the excess heat/energy (and such a measurement is not easy) Nature or Science cannot publish "cold fusion" papers. From mfj.eav at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 19:16:50 2008 From: mfj.eav at gmail.com (Morris Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:16:50 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Longevity Dividend Course OP-ED Assignment 07 ptA Message-ID: <61c8738e0806061216r719cc340jb1ca53fe59d19ffd@mail.gmail.com> 07- Medicare and Health Insurance Reform Ok dad, we'll leave you alone on the medicare and health insurance reform issue?. this is one of your passionate areas. "Oh my goodness gracious me, Holy swamp of quicksand and alligators, I'm liable to loose a leg, get mangled or be swallowed alive this time " says I. USA Medicare economics as detailed in http://www.kaiseredu.org/tutorials_index.asp show medicare costs 14% of the USA federal budget and covers only 43 million of 320+ million and requires 159 billion or 3,765 per person average out of pocket expenditures to get benefits. The highest cost (25,000 or more per year) cost of beneficiaries (10% of those covered) use 69% of 2006 total budget. By 2018 medicare trust fund reserves will be used up and as the taxpayer to beneficiary ratio drops from 4/1 to a projected 2.4/1 for 78.6 beneficiaries in 2030. This is predicted to drive the very fundamentals of financing healthcare from critical to flat-lining. In Saskatchewan Health care consumes 95% of every tax dollar collected for 2008. Education at 2 billion (22.7% of the 8.57 Billion dollar provincial budget) more had better live up to its potential to enable the citizens to lower their short and long term health care costs to the treasury. University Students and Alumni all have access through the PAWS portal to a very good database of professional, technical and scientific scholarly journals to empower decision making. I would be absolutely helpless to reliably compare hearsay with state of the art science without being able to read the research. If I had one suggestion to enhance the potential of achieving a "Saskatchewan longevity dividend" to reduce the accelerating cost from 6 billion to a flat-line or even reduced cost it would be to provide University of Saskatchewan PAWS portal full-text scientific journal access to every person with a Sask Health card. Medicare must leverage knowledge, e-education and telemedicine in order to free up resources of people, equipment , procedures and materials to enhance wellness. Without this a universal longevity dividend will remain publicly unfundable , unsustainable and unavailable except for that 1% superwealthy who can defy the world in order to take care of number one. Self-directed preventative care in consultation with health care professionals is where I propose health care head so that when the crunch hits in 2025 that we have handled it like a "Y2K" and fixed it before it hits. The Canadian rationing method of waiting lists and limiting numbers of procedures available is unethical where a globally distributed pool of resources exceeds the