[ExI] Cryonics a theory or belief?

[citta437 at aol.com]

Bret wrote:
"Hi Terry, it works currently, but in a scaled fashion. Entire "humans" 

are stored in liquid nitrogen, as embryos. We (species we) have also
managed to vitrify entire organs that have emerged in a functioning
state and have been installed in humans as donor organs. There is a
great deal of information about low temperature experimentation in
living humans and animals for surgical purposes, and work is being
done to cryonically store larger and more complex systems using
improved formulae all the time.

So this is entirely a theoretical pursuit with escalating
experimentation within the scientific method. It is not a dream/belief.

A list of independent scientific journal articles, hosted on the Alcor
website:
http://www.alcor.org/sciencerefs.html

Science FAQ:
http://www.alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm
___________

Thanks Bret for your above post and for giving the website for 
alcor.org which I'll try to read asap. I'm aware of what's going on in 
embryonic cell research and some organ transplant.

> My reply: Its neither you nor not you for there's no permanent person
> to be identified as change occurs moment to moment in the death of
> cells from a biological process during the interchange of oxygen and
> carbon dioxide. The intercellular system is not a person but a
> biological process among a lot of complex organ system such as brain
> and its supporting structures. What is a person? Its a conventional
> way
> of identifying an individual by social standard/culture using
> ideas/thoughts/memes.
________

Bret: "Are you still you after a heart transplant?  If the 
intercellular
system, the whole she-bang, is halted, and then restored in an
undamaged state, is it still you? Until we prove otherwise, there
isn't any real scientific evidence to suggest that transplantation of
anything other than the brain would change "you-ness". Therefore, if
the above systemic experimentation continues to yield positive
results, at the rate it has in the past twenty years, and medical
instrumentation continues to increase in resolution and capacity, I
would say cryonics will yield its first "real" success in
approximately 180 years, barring any major leap. Just look at Moore's
Law"
___________

I read an abstract of Moore's Law which is now obsolete according to 
some study which is not applicable in economics and social problems 
globally. I'll get back to you about that. In connection with your 
question above "Are you still you after a heart transplant?"
In macro scale what took place is a change from one donor to the 
receipient. I read a case of some heart transplant in which the 
receipient feeling a tad confused about some feelings that triggers the 
memory of some experience which only occured on the donor's life but 
not on the person who gets the transplant. It was found out that heart 
cells also carry memories for some cells somehow resemble some of the 
neurons of the nervous system.

In micro scale there is no change for the heart beats with the 
interchange between calcium and potassium ions in the muscles.

There is no such thing as a you-ness or I-ness in that process involved 
in micro scale.

As I said in my previews posts, memes are acquired not embedded in the 
genes.

In a larger scale like heart transplant, cronics working with science 
in that instant is not a belief but a theory.

Terry