[ExI] flds raid, was general repudiation...

[Kevin Freels]

I think these questions were posed for Lee but I wanted to share my 
answers since I share Lee's thoughts on this....
>   If I had stated my emotional response properly then you wouldn't have needed to apology.  
> Anyway, after thinking about it I discovered what caused such an emotional reaction to certain posts.  I have some questions:
>
> 1) Psychologically to you believe that these girls are ready to have children at 13-14 years old?
>   
I don't think that's the argument. The psychological preparedness 
necessary to raise children is dictated by the society in which they 
live. In OUR society, the answer is "no". But if you threw a hundred 
people of various ages together on an island without our technology and 
infrastructure, I would place my bets on the younger mothers. Our 
society virtually demands that women grow to a specific age, develop a 
career, and gain their own independence before they become mothers. They 
also need to be able to raise their children to deal with the 
complexities of our culture. In a small isolated society, none of this 
is a benefit. All that matters is the ability to nurture and love the 
child and pass on the simple teachings they have learned themselves.
> 2) Have you ever been surrounded by 13-14 year old girls on a regular basis (Of course I mean regarding teaching, non-profit work, etc..)?
>   
My daughters are 13 and 12. And before you ask, I would not have a man 
of ANY age bedding them and making them pregnant. This is because my 
kids need to be able to succeed in this world we know and the one that 
is coming. But I have to admit, there is a certain appeal to the idea 
that they could grow up in a world where all they have to worry about is 
raising children. This of course goes into an entirely different debate 
- "Is ignorance bliss?". I happen to think that being aware of reality 
is preferable to being ignorant - regardless of how ugly life really is. 
That's why I don't filter my kids internet connection. (I do monitor). 
In a way, these parents who raise their girls like this are only doing 
what most of us do already but take it to an extreme. How many parents 
REALLY want their kids exposed to the REAL world at 13?
> 3) I have some knowledge of Canadian and American mentality when it comes to teen girl adolescence and I do agree that there is a fine line between child and young woman.  What I have a problem with is the manipulation that allows these older men to take advantage of the situation.  What if a young girl growing up in that environment doesn't want to?  The programming is there yet they just don't want to.  Do you think they can just up and leave?  It is the same circumstance as a 13 year old boy that has to grow up with an alcoholic parent  What if removed from that environment what makes you so sure that the child wouldn't flourish?
>   
This was already addressed. We all agree that those who did not wish to 
be there should be allowed to leave and anyone preventing this could and 
should be held accountable. But no one ever asked. Instead, they 
forcefully removed ALL of the children even when there were no signs of 
abuse, neglect, etc.
> 4) I know many women in there 30's that are currently having children.  Shouldn't a girl have a choice when she chooses to want to pro-create? 
Yes. Exactly the point.
>  The option should be there.  By installing these pre-conceived notions how does this better society? 
Everything we teach kids is a "pre-conceived notion". We teach that they 
should get educated, get good jobs, make lots of money, buy lots of 
stuff, raise kids, buy more stuff, and die. If you really want to fight 
poorly conceived preconceived notions, take up the fight against those 
who think that death should be accepted as part of life.
>  What can a 13-14 year old girl teach a child?  Doesn't this just lead to children having children? 
>   
As I said earlier - it doesn't matter in a small isolated society.
> 5) I've known many women in there 20's and 30's that have reported just knowing when they where ready to have children (as well as hearing about the sexual peek of the 30's..lol). I have never heard a 13-14 year old tell me she was ready to be a mother.  Don't you think there is some kind of logic behind that?
>   
No. This is because of the preconceived notions that we give kids that 
they should go to school, get educated, and everything else before 
having kids.


As far as humanity is concerned, it is better if we all get educated and 
find a way to the singularity. I am not saying that we are wrong to 
teach our children that. But in many ways, these people may very well be 
happier than we ever could be. None of us would ever condone going into 
a tribe of aboriginal people and forcing them to live by our rules - 
regardless of the age of the girls who have the children.

For some reason people think the worst thing that could happen to a girl 
is to be taught that it is OK to have children young and live in an 
isolated society without having the opportunity to become rich. I 
disagree. I think that it is worse to rip a 13 year old girl from her 
family and everything she knows and drop her into a foster home with 
possibly abusive foster parents and a 25%-65% chance of becoming jailed 
or homeless and subjecting her to the nastiness that exists in the 
public school system which if you know as much about teen girls as you 
say, you know very well is extremely rough.

With all that said, does anyone want to place bets on the number of 
suicides that result from this action?
I didn't think so.