[ExI] flds raid, was general repudiation...

[Lee Corbin]

Amara writes

> John Grigg possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com :
> 
>>We must not let the old ways of doing things continue in the FLDS
>>community.
> 
> Who's "we"?

To be fair, that's just one way of briefly saying that "as a community,
state, nation, etc., we citizens should in my opinion enact laws such
that <etc.>".  In any case, no matter how much freedom you and I
may endorse in this and parallel cases, we too of course would like
the laws to reflect our preferences, so the form of John's statement
is above reproach.

>>The state must make sure underage girls are not preyed
>                           ^^^^^^^^
>>upon by older men.
> 
> Please read the links of the last days more carefully.

To be blunt, I can't get over how condescending you and
Keith sometimes are. Okay, yes, you may have a lot to be
condescending about, but it's still rude. The statement here
implies, for example, that though John may have read the
links of the past days, he just didn't do so *carefully* enough.

That is never a guarantee that people will come to believe as
we do, *if they just studied the situation more*.

> For example:
> 
> http://www.wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.1577
> 
> "As the media ceases to tiptoe like scared mice around the blatant,
> raging abuse of power that is the CPS in Texas (and elsewhere) other
> details might emerge. For example, the vicious and known hoax of a phone
> call that sparked the kidnapping of over 450 children may be explored
> with something other than cursory, dismissive reporting. The fact that a
> significant number of the "children" held were actually adults who
> produced evidence of their adulthood to social workers may become
> noteworthy to those towering media sleuths. Of course, the social
> workers will and do deny such knowledge -- brushing aside signed
> statements by some in which they acknowledge seeing evidence of
> majority....

Yes, thanks so much for that. It certainly seems to me that the
overwhelming weight of evidence, as Spike and several others
have said, is that the improprieties committed by the authorities
vastly outweigh the not-even-fully-proved improprieties committed
by the accused.

Of course, when possible focus should be on what causes "conflicts
of visions", or value systems that are so at odds with each other.
Those like John have imbibed exactly what memes, as compared
to us?  I submit that the most of it is simply revulsion brought 
about by 19th and mid-20th century American culture against
anything like polygamy, or early marriages (in their case).  And
a stalwart wish to be less judgmental---or at least according to
the Non Agression Principle, to act on our judgments---(in our
case).

I *do* realize that the main point of your nice links is not to debate
the kind of thing that I just said, but that to make the case that 
according to present law, again, the state appears to be far more
at fault than who its accusing and violating.

Lee

> Somewhere in the Mudville that is our media, a lone voice
> might inquire as to the constantly changing numbers issued by the CPS.
> At first it was 416 children abducted into its care; then it was 462. At
> first, it was 31 underaged pregnancies; now it is 5...with defense
> attorneys arguing that the number is actually 1, which would be far
> below the national average for teen pregnancies BTW. Is anyone in
> Mudville's media brave enough to inquire WHY the removal of children is
> entrusted to bureaucrats who can't even count how many children they
> kidnapped on one particular day? Will any of the talking-heads who
> render legal opinions comment on the unprecedented class-action removal
> of children by which if one specific person in a community is suspected
> of child abuse, then ALL children in that community are removed? Where
> in the media can you find a fucking spine?"
> 
> 
> Amara