[ExI] Evolution "for the Good of the Group"

hkhenson hkhenson at rogers.com
Sun Sep 21 21:47:47 UTC 2008

At 11:56 AM 9/21/2008, lee wrote:


>I agree with that. Sober and Wilson's book "Unto Others" was for me 
>the ultimate proof that *group* selection can be
>real and can work.

This I need to see.  I have never seen a "proof" of group selection.

>(Stuart, you will be most interested to
>know, if you don't already, that the mechanism they identify
>as responsible for group selection is the wonderful "Simpson's
>Paradox", a notorious but beautiful mathematical result.)
>Keith wrote in this same thread,
>> > Just because someone rates as high as EO Wilson
>> > doesn't mean what he says should be taken without
>> > examining the logic behind what his claims. Of course
>> > this applies even more to people like me far down
>> > the feeding chain.
>I'm not sure, but you may be mistaking "David Sloan Wilson",
>the author of "Unto Others" (who is the big group selection
>proponent) with the much more legendary EO Wilson of
>sociobiology (ev psych) fame.

If you read the .pdf of the article, it's by *both* of them.  EO 
Wilson is the junior author and I really wonder how much input he had.

>My only problem with group selection at this point is that
>it seems like, according to all I've read, it's rather relatively
>infrequently used by evolution. In other words, most selection
>phenomena is still best described at operating at the gene level.

I have *never* seen a description of group selection that didn't have 
a simpler model based on gene selection.


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