[ExI] Private and government R&D

[Eschatoon Magic]

No, Max, it is not a separate issue. Perhaps not "forced into" loans,
but certainly "scammed into" loans.

Take the recent real estate bubble: real estate prices have been
artificially driven to unrealistic values while at the same time
citizens have been encouraged to spend virtual money without having
real money, by a _joint_ action of governments and private financial
institutions. Then when the bubble has exploded, citizens have not
been able to afford their mortgages anymore, banks have repossessed
their homes and sold them at bargain prices to their own people, who
will now restart the loop. It is a big shakeout that happens
periodically in our economies, to rob citizens of their money and give
the money back to their "real owners": government officers and
financial institutions acting in _complicity_. This is not free
market, but organized thievery masquerading as free market. Give me a
healthy free market anytime, but not this farce.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Max More<max at maxmore.com> wrote:
> Eschatoon Magic wrote:
>>
>> What are "the goods"? To whom, when, how, and at what price, they are
>> "delivered"? And first of all, what is "better"? I think wine is better than
>> beer, you may think beer is better than wine. There is one sane solution: I
>> drink wine and you drink beer.
>
> But when a good is provided by the government, you are forced to pay for
> Joe's beer, and Joe is forced to pay for your wine.
>
>> There are many types of cohercive systems. I can force you to do what I
>> say by pointing a gun, or by withdrawing a loan.
>
> This is the same frustrating discussion as on the WTA list... No,
> withdrawing a loan (under previously-agreed conditions) is *not* coercion.
> It may be damned inconvenient, but you had no right to the loan in the first
> place. It was something you agree to. Withdrawing it under agreed upon
> conditions (like failure to make payments) is not coercion. Surely you can
> see the difference?
>
> Of course, it's possible that the system making the loans is one that you're
> being forced into (for instance, it may be a government monopoly, or one
> where your private choices are restricted through legislation), but that's a
> separate issue.
>
> Max
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Max More, Ph.D.
> Strategic Philosopher
> Extropy Institute Founder
> www.maxmore.com
> max at maxmore.com
> -------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>



-- 
Eschatoon Magic
http://cosmeng.org/index.php/Eschatoon
aka Giulio Prisco
http://cosmeng.org/index.php/Giulio_Prisco