[ExI] Wanted - academic discussions of mind uploading

[Brent Allsop]

Kaj,

I'm certainly looking forward to following any such academic effort.  I 
love what I've seen so far.

In case you haven't heard, a growing bunch of world class mind expert 
volunteers are working on using the open survey system at canonizer.com 
to rigorously measure or survey for the 'scientific consensus' (see: 
http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/53/11) to determine and track, 
quantitatively, what the experts currently believe are the best theories 
of consciousness.  Some argue that we are about to make the greatest 
scientific discovery of all time: what / how is the mind is.  Our goal 
is to rigorously measure this process as the demonstrable scientific 
proof starts to convert all experts to THE ONE true theory of 
consciousness possibly already represented by a camp in the survey topic 
on the best theories of mind here:

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88

Leading experts like Steven Lehar, John Smythies, Jonathan Edwards, John 
Gregg, and many more are starting to contribute.  It is definitely 
exciting to watch this horse race as ever more experts contribute 
(canonizer if you will) their beliefs to this real time open survey.  
Most people think there is no consensus whatsoever in this field of 
study, but if these early still tentative results continue to bear out, 
there is an extreme and increasing amount of scientific consensus 
revolutionizing this field of study as we speak.  To date, everyone and 
their dog has been developing their own pet theory of consciousness.  
But the evidence we're seeing so far seems to increasingly be saying 
that none of these theories has more than one or two supporters by 
scientific experts, except for the representational and real theory 
represented by this so far obvious current scientific consensus camp here:

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/6

This theory predicts (falsifiably so) we are about to develop what will 
make the subjective objectively sharable via something referred to as 
effing the ineffable (First proposed by V.S. Ramachandran 
http://www.imprint.co.uk/rama/qualia.pdf).  You know, as in "oh THAT is 
what salt tastes like!"

It further predicts that multiple 'spirits' will be able to inhabit 
unified 'spirit worlds' of conscious awareness (WARNING: see the above 
camp statement for a definition of 'spirit' and 'spirit world', these 
are not ghosts, and are dependent on the brain - but other than that, 
they are what they sound like.)

Currently, when you hug someone, you are only aware of half of the 
phenomenal sensations.  This theory predicts we will achieve the ability 
to 'merge' conscious worlds in ways such that multiple of our spirits 
will be able to inhabit shared spaces of  conscious awareness.  This 
will enable all parties involved to spiritually experience all that is 
going on, not just half, and much more.

And of course all this will be the beginnings of what will surely be 
'hive minds' as these conscious worlds finally pierce the 'veil of 
perception', escape from being ineffablly trapped inside these mortal 
spirit prison walls that currently are our skulls, and eventually, as 
Raymond Kurzweil predicts, the entire universe starts to phenomenally or 
spiritually 'wake up' into one unfied shared consciouses spiritual hive 
mind.  The universe is obviosly made of much more than just cause and 
effect properties, if this theory is correct we are about to 
demonstrably discover all this.

Also, since you asked, there is a reference to a fictionalized short 
story in the above 'camp' describing in chapters 5 and 6 what 
phenomenal  uploading and hive minds, could be like, as predicted by 
this theory.  (See reference to "1229 Years After Titanic" in the notes 
section of the above camp statement.)

I'd love to know if you find or if there is anything along these 
phenomenal lines in what you've included in your survey so far.  And of 
course, everyone would love to know what you think is most likely 
possible in the future in our open survey also.


Brent Allsop


P. S. I am happy to hear about you for the fist time.  I love your 
'opinion page' here:

    http://www.saunalahti.fi/~tspro1/aboutme.html

that enables me to know much about you.  If you are interested, here is 
my personal 'canonized' opinion page:

    http://canonizer.com/support_list.asp?nick_name_id=1

It appears that we have much in common.





Kaj Sotala wrote:
> I'm playing around with the idea of doing a paper on the hive mind
> aspect of an uploaded society (see
> http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2009-February/047770.html
> for my previous post on the topic), for which I need to do a survery
> on the previous academic discussions on mind uploading. Both journal
> articles and books are fine - also, if any of you happen to know of
> any fictional works concerning uploading where the people involved
> eventually develop into a hive mind, do mention them. (Note that I'm
> specifically looking for hive minds that have developed from *human
> uploads*. I'm not looking for AI hive minds, cyborg hive minds or hive
> minds in general - I know that scifi has plenty of *those*.)
>
> Here are the academic uploading articles which I'm already aware of
> (which might also be a handy reference for anyone else interested in
> the topic).
>
> Non-fiction about uploading in general:
>
> Anders Sandberg & Nick Bostrom (2008): Whole Brain Emulation: A
> Roadmap, Technical Report #2008-3. Future of Humanity Institute,
> Oxford University. (An analysis of what is yet required for uploads.)
> Robin Hanson (1994, 2008): If uploads come first - The crack of a
> future dawn; Economics of the Singularity. (Hanson's classic must-read
> papers on the economic consequences of uploads.)
> Susan Schneider (2008): Future Minds: Transhumanism, Cognitive
> Enhancement and the Nature of Persons. Neuroethics Publications.
> (Critique of uploading on the grounds that an uploaded copy "would be
> just a clone, not you", and seems to assume that this can just be
> taken as granted. Groan.)
> V. Astakhov (2008): Mind Uploading and Resurrection of Human
> Consciousness. Place for Science? NeuroQuantology. (/Seems/ to discuss
> some sort of theory for the actual upload process. I think. Not sure
> if it's entirely serious, but at least I'm unable to follow it.)
> Ray Kurzweil (2005): The Singularity is Near. (Briefly discusses the
> possibility of uploading.)
> Nick Bostrom (2004): The Future of Human Evolution. In Death and
> Anti-Death: Two Hundred Years After Kant, Fifty Years After Turing.
> (The only paper I could find that actually discusses a hive mind -like
> scenario.)
> Hans Moravec (2000): Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind.
> (Mentions uploading in the form of a "cyberspace" that people will
> move into.)
> Robert Harle (2002): Cyborgs, Uploading and Immortality - Some Serious
> Concerns. Sophia, Volume 41, Number 2. (Mainly attempts to debunk the
> whole idea of uploading. Humorous for stating that "the most serious
> problem for uploaders" is the fact that a brain cannot function
> without body, completely ignoring the possibility of *gasp* people
> also simulating a body. Not very interesting.)
> Hans Moravec (1988): Mind Children. (Has a brief description of an
> upload process.)
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