[ExI] What is Grace?

Dagon Gmail dagonweb at gmail.com
Tue Mar 10 17:14:07 UTC 2009

> I realize you are a European, but still, you associate the U.S. involvement
> with Iraq and Afghanistan as being on par with the Nazi SS atrocities of
> WW2???  I would say that is REALLY pushing it.  You must not know your
> history...  Part of the reason the U.S. has had a hard time trying to "win"
> is that we fight with one hand tied behind our back, in an effort to at
> least try to be ethical.  And when we make mistakes we usually/at least
> sometimes try to correct them and have governmental bodies to aid in this
> desire.
> Ask yourself, what would the Nazi SS have done in an identical war?  They
> would have rounded up tens of thousands of civilians and routinely carried
> out public executions until they broke the spirit of Iraq.  And the
> carpet/fire bombing of entire neighborhoods would have been done if viewed
> as necessary to pacify and cower the general population.  Torture and
> interrogation would have occurred on a scale VASTLY greater than what has
> been done by the US.  Mass deportation and slave labor would be implemented
> at every opportunity.  And with our current technological resources, a
> modern-day Nazi-like armed forces could deploy a highly tailored bio-weapon
> to kill hundreds of thousands or even millions as the ultimate terror
> weapon.  But then again a nuke or two might be used.

I suggest by no means that the former political elite of the US,
specifically the cadre of neoconservatives
and hawks that surrounded Cheney, were not as methodically ruthless,
genocidal or criminal as the
people surrounding Hitler. I do assert these people had some remaining
principles. But what happened
in the last eight years was a series of corporate exploitation programs,
social darwinist, a  long list of
war crimes skirting the border of genocide, unspeakable incompetence and an
overwhelming cynicism.
A more apt comparison would be comparing Bush with Mugabe. Mugabe's country
is a lot poorer, his
supporters undereducated and dumb as a bucket - but the cynicism,
opportunism loathing for political
adversaries is roughly equal. I hasten to add arrogance, conceit,
disinterest in longterm planning, and

President Cheney was limited in his reach of options by public opinion, the
pretense of US democracy and
strategic alliances. But let me say so bluntly - If a nuclear weapon would
have detonated in a minor US
city, say, around 2006, Cheney would no doubt lose a night of sleep over the
lost US city, and he would
have uses the incident as a welcome rationale to nuke several middle eastern

Let me emphasize that stating this *belief* on my part has almost no
function, other than the small
amount of embarrassment it might create in Americans. This is the only
reason I say it. I say loudly that
the US was completely wrong for the better part of  a decade. I regard the
choices of the US as betrayal -
the US has done things that betrayed democracy, freedom, rationality and
sound governance. The idea
is somewhat remote, but several undesirable things that transpired would not
have happened if, say,
Gore would have been elected in 2000.  For one thing I am sure we would not
be in a global economic
collapse right now, and a million Iraqi's would still be alive, living in
their country and relatively well off.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20090310/8f086a20/attachment.html>

More information about the extropy-chat mailing list