[ExI] Civilization, Virtue, and Stress
Mirco Romanato
painlord2k at libero.it
Tue Sep 1 19:15:03 UTC 2009
Post Futurist ha scritto:
> Vietnam? so many thousands of ex-'Nam soldiers are in pain; and who was
> it Repuglicans ran for potus less than a year ago? a gung ho 'Nam
> vet-- over 33 years after the war ended. The Vietnam war is NOT over.
> And we're also in another war. Thousands of casualties stateside.
> Constructivism is no longer a threat in schools, now deconstructionists
> have much more latitude, not that their teaching can be termed 'morally
> relativistic'; technically there is no longer any morality,
> only situational ethics. Does cause exist for optimism? yes, for 12-16
> students. Unfortunately, K-12 students are a captive audience, they
> can't turn to the 'private sector' for guidance because their families
> and peers are just as clueless.
>
>
>
> From: Post Futurist <p0stfuturist at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [ExI] Civilization, Virtue, and Stress
> To: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 4:14 PM
>
> "And leaving politics aside, the *real* stresses of
> daily life for almost everyone have nothing at all
> to do with those ancient wars or their after-effects."
> Nothing at all??
> BTW it wasn't a direct linkage-- needless (unless in public schools)
> to say, conditions are different 1500- 2000 years later. The post
> wasn't to even remotely suggest we'll be destroyed as the Roman
> Empire was; but when we get to the point that so many are
> celebrating Michael Jackson and Ted Kennedy as some sort of role
> models(!), that is quite a stretch. Is it absolutely unreasonable to
> infer we're devoid of at least conventional morality? Can we say
> we're just making the rules up as we go along? I don't know and it
> is disturbing you wizards almost certainly don't have a clue as to
> today's morality (or lack thereof) and what is to come. The tunes
> are being played by ear.
> Schools were somewhat better during the '50s and '60s, and probably
> during the '40s as well. I can't stand to speak to youths today; the
> slop teechurs are pouring into their minds.
> It's not at all encouraging that 100 years after 1909, government is
> still so corrupt. And now such as auto companies can join in for the
> fun.
> Correct, Lee, we're not nearly at war in labor disputes as was the
> case in 1909; no, instead over a $ trillion, plus hidden costs,
> we're-- are-- spent on an external war that will go on for so
> long who in their right mind wants to think about it? How much spent
> on law enforcers, courts, prisons, battered families, costly
> litigation? and all that jazz...
> Different from 1909? yes. Better? maybe. I don't know, and it makes
> me nervous none of you know, either. It is a photo that hasn't been
> developed yet.
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Lee Corbin /<lcorbin at rawbw.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Lee Corbin <lcorbin at rawbw.com>
> Subject: [ExI] Civilization, Virtue, and Stress
> To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 11:16 PM
>
> In "Re: [ExI] Tools for improving health care in the USA, now"
> Post Futurist wrote:
>
> > Stress? sure, there is no civilization.
>
> Come now, don't be silly.
>
> > America is like ancient Rome.. wealthy, powerful, but no virtue.
>
> *No* virtue? Again, you exaggerate wildly. And it's
> evident that you know very little about ancient Rome.
> Whatever corruption, mal-distribution of power and
> influence, disregard for individual rights that we
> suffer in the modern world, multiply by 10 or 100
> to get ancient Rome or Greece.
>
> And as for brutality or intimidation by force, there
> is utterly no comparison.
>
> > Dysfunctional families. High crime.
>
> As compared to what, when? Of course, it varies a lot
> from neighborhood to neighborhood and city to city in
> the West (or in America, as you write), and I'll have to
> let others speak for their neighborhoods and cities.
>
> Yes, there are more dysfunctional families in America
> than in 1950. Most adults in the slums were married
> back then, and relatively few children were born out
> of wedlock. But "dysfunctional" in terms of intra-
> family tension, alcoholism, and so forth, sadly the
> situation has never been ideal.
>
> And that's the eternal problem in the babblesphere
> and among the chattering classes: invariably the
> comparison is made to an ideal, rather than to anything
> real (past or present).
>
> > K-16 Schools that teach students not to think.
>
> As compared to when?
>
> Besides, to me it's not clear at all that you can "teach
> someone to think". Yes, some constructivism in education
> has been all to the good, but some of it is very bad.
> I would guess that most schools and most home-schoolers
> are not too far from a happy medium. (I am by no means
> saying that things can't improve, nor suggesting that
> anywhere near optimal learning and teaching strategies
> geared to individuals have yet been found.)
>
> > This country is still fighting not only Vietnam, but also the
> Civil War; and after 144 years.
> > Stress. you betcha.
>
> Okay, there are still echos of both those conflicts,
> in both politics and daily life.
>
> But compared to 1909, when the country was nearly at
> war with itself (labor vs. business), politically the
> country today is quite united.
>
> And leaving politics aside, the *real* stresses of
> daily life for almost everyone have nothing at all
> to do with those ancient wars or their after-effects.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
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