[ExI] Religion and banking

The Avantguardian avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 13 16:47:46 UTC 2010

----- Original Message ----
> From: BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
> To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 2:17:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [ExI] Religion and banking
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Tomasz Rola  wrote:
> > Howdy,
> >
> > As I have skimmed through posts of people worring about how Islam and
> > China are growing danger for the West, and I agree that they can be a
> > danger indeed, there was one more thing that have caught my attention.
> > Quite incidentally, I've stumbled upon this article:

China and Islam are only dangerous to us because of an epic fail on our part. We 
gave both of them power to wield against us. The radical Islamacists were 
trained by our own CIA and our media has blown the threat they pose way out of 
proportion. Furthermore, our government has given Islam a free pass from 
policing their own by enforcing a political correctness that absolves the 
majority of Muslims from responsibility for their radical brethren. This is 
despite the facts that the majority benefits from the actions of the minority, 
in the sense that the minority wants universal submission to Islam, and the 
minority benefits from covert funding and obfuscation by the majority. When the 
differences between a peacable Muslim and a Jihadist are merely some 
ill-concieved ideas they might harbor, it is very difficult to tell "friend" 
from foe.

With regard to China, we did all their espionage for them by giving them most 
of our technology for free. We moved all our advanced manufacturing facilities 
over there to benefit the bottom line of a bunch of rich people who didn't want 
to pay American wages and taxes. Now those rich people are going to find out 
that without jobs or credit, we Americans can't afford to buy their stuff. So 
unless China or Europe pick up the slack of the endangered species of 
middle-class American consumers, it's just a matter of time before the formerly 
rich are applying for food stamps like the rest of us. And if the Chinese 
government wanted to simply nationalize all of those factories, who is going to 
stop them? Those fools may regret ignoring the value of loyalty. 

> > http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64796
> >
> > It is quite looong but I find it interesting. But, since I haven't read
> > opposing views, I cannot actually judge how good (or bad) it really is. I
> > wonder if there are any alternative views on this and I'd like to learn
> > more about them.
> >
> > If the article was right, the truth would be scary - the democracy is gone
> > already and West (or at least US-ians, at the moment) are fscked in the
> > ass from the inside, so it would be hard to deal with any future external
> > hazard. However, I have used logic, as usual (aha! good logic, good), and
> > came to totally different results. Here is how.

The article is old but I think it focuses too much on Goldman-Sachs. 
Goldman-Sachs is merely a symptom and not the underlying problem. The underlying 
problem is far more complicated but can be boiled down to the misguided notion 
popularized by the media that "easy money" is a virtue. I seem to recall that it 
really started to gain momentum in the 80's, but the upshot is that we have a 
brainwashed population that believes that someone who earns millions of dollars 
by playing golf all day and selling worthless vapor is more important than the 
barista who earns minimum wage pouring our coffee. In other words, our culture 
glorifies its parasites over its true producers of value.

Bill writes:
> I reckon this article is pretty much correct. There are many similar
> comments in the blogosphere.
> My feeling is that there is a slow fire building in the US.
> See:
> 15 Economic Statistics That Just Keep Getting Worse
> August 11, 2010        By Michael T. Snyder
> Money Quote:
> Any rational observer (and clearly U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy
> Geithner does not qualify) can see that the foundations of the U.S.
> economy are coming apart.  The rapidly accumulating mountain of debt
> that has fueled our “prosperity” is impossible to repay and is going
> to progressively choke the life out of our economic system.

Well unlike individuals, countries cannot be foreclosed upon, repossessed, or 
have its wages garnished. If China wants to stop lending us money, it is welcome 
to and if it wants to try to forcibly collect, well that would be good for our 
economy if a little messy otherwise. If the dollar becomes worthless well that 
just helps equalize the wealth gap, we can pay off our debt with worthless 
dollars, and then we'll start from scratch bartering hardware and services if 
necessary. The government's debt is the government's problem. There is 
an ancient Roman saying that "The man with an empty purse can whistle when 
accosted by a thief." 

> The good
> jobs that we have allowed to be shipped out of our country are never
> coming back.  Every single day, more wealth flows out of this country
> than flows into it.

Unlike the national debt, this is something that ordinary Americans can do 
something about. Buy used goods, recycle, buy locally grown produce, support 
American small business, avoid Walmart, etc. Sooner or later American 
manufacturing will come back because whatever works will be stabilize, survive, 
and multiply.

> Anyone who claims that things are getting “better” is either ignorant,
> completely deluded or is purposely lying.

Change is happening. Better or worse depends on where you stand.
> The U.S. economy is not getting “better”.
> The U.S. economy is dying.
> -----------------------------------------------------------

The American economy is dead! Long live the American economy! 

> What's happening is like the lobster slowly being boiled.
> The people are confused and unhappy, many losing their jobs, but
> getting government handouts. The government keeps issuing soothing
> words about how things will get better soon.
> The Tea Party protest movement against Obama seems to have been mostly
> hijacked by the Republicans to help them get re-elected. So the people
> are lost, with nowhere to release their pent-up anger against all the
> government reps.
> I don't know how it will all unfold. Maybe everyone will vote for
> independent candidates in the Nov elections. But I feel that a new
> protest movement for a third party could well arise and sweep away the
> Reps and Dems. This is what almost happened in the UK, when the
> Liberal party increased their vote sufficiently to form a coalition
> government.
> There are plenty of doom-mongers around prophesying civil war and
> riots. (Strikes and riots seem to be appearing in Europe).  Maybe -
> who knows?
We have been, are, and always will be nine meals from a revolution. And 
revolution is as natural as the change of seasons. It's not a matter of if, but 
of when and how. 

Stuart LaForge

"Old men read the lesson in the setting sun.
Beat the cymbal and sing in this life, or wail away the hours fearing death.
Their choice is their fortune." - I Ching 


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