[ExI] Linguistic shifts

spike spike66 at att.net
Thu Dec 23 02:55:01 UTC 2010

... On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty
Subject: Re: [ExI] Linguistic shifts

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:49 AM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
> So we need to think of adapting language in such a way that automated 
> translation effectively translates it...

Newspeak?  Difficult to do either quickly or completely.  These shifts will
still be subject to a propagation lag so before a population has completely
adopted the forced-pattern those early adopters have already shifted it and
started a new wave.  You see this happen with internet memes. (need help?
http://knowyourmeme.com/)... Mike

Mike consider this game: take a sentence or comment, use Babelfish to
translate to German, then German to French, then French to English:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for
the United States of America.

Wir die Leute der Vereinigten Staaten, zwecks einen vollkommeneren Anschluss
zu bilden, stellen Gerechtigkeit her, versichern inländische Ruhe, stellen
für die allgemeine Verteidigung zur Verfügung, fördern die allgemeine
Wohlfahrt und befestigen den Segen der Freiheit an uns selbst und unsere
Nachwelt, ordinieren und stellen diese Konstitution für die Staaten von
Amerika her.

Nous les personnes des Etats-Unis former pour un raccordement plus parfait,
fabriquons la justice, assurons un repos national, mettons à la disposition
pour la défense générale, encourageons la prospérité générale et attachons
la prière de la liberté à nous-mêmes et notre postérité, ordinieren et
fabriquons cette constitution pour les États d'Amérique.

We them people of the United States to form for a more perfect connection,
manufacture justice, ensure a national rest, place at the disposal for
general defense, encourage general prosperity and attach the prayer of
freedom to ourselves and our posterity, ordinieren and manufacture this
constitution for the States d' America.

That kinda works.  I like that We them people bit.  Sounds a bit red-neck.
Manufacture justice sounds like a lawsuit my parents were in recently, where
the judge attempted to manufacture justice.  Let see what happens when we go
with the same passage, English to French to German to English:

If it populates us from the United States to form over a more perfect
combination sets up the law, plans the common defense, favours the general
well-being issue and specifies the Benediktionen of the freedom ensures the
house peace on us, and our descendants instruct and place this condition for
the United States d' up; America.

Notice it doesn't work nearly as well in this direction.  One can pretty
much tell what old Jefferson is talking about in the E->G->F->E loop, but
the E->F->G->E direction is definitely up fucked.


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