[ExI] Max More - New CEO Alcor Life Extension Foundation

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at canonizer.com
Sun Dec 26 19:55:24 UTC 2010

Hi Jeff,

I bet most of us here, would agree that doing anything to help Cryonics 
become more main stream is better, and most of us would put something 
like this near the tops of our things that Extropians should be doing 
list.  But there are probably differences of opinion on how best to do 
this.  I would sure like to survey for all of this.  Some evidently even 
like to come up with faithless excuses like listing as many as possible 
saying like "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", What about 
"minding one's own business?" and on and on, as if their working 
hypothesis is that it is better to not even try.  Regardless of what 
everyone thinks is the best way to go about promoting cryonics, the 
system is capable of surveying for all this concisely and quantitative, 
and finding out what all of us think, in sub camps to a 'promotion of 
cryonics' thing to do camp ( http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/120 ).  It 
just takes a bit of collaborative work for us to achieve this.  But I 
guess even something as simple as that is asking too much?

Max has now been placed at the top of one hierarchy (congratulations 
Max!) and sure, he'll surely do much good for all of us in that 
position.  I just always wonder how much more could we do, if  more 
people were willing to do more to help, and work together on some of 
these things.  You talked of your HMO idea, as if it would even be 
ambitions for someone like Max, in this new position.  I can't seem to 
shake the idea, that if all of us extropians were willing to give of 
themselves just a bit (something like 1/10 the amount typical Mormons 
give of themselves), and if a few thousand of us were capable of 
agreeing on something enough for all of us to collaborate with such, 
grandiose change the world like things like a growing very functional 
Cryonics based HMO wold be child's play, and there would be no end to 
fantastic things like that we'd be doing.  Just posting such an idea to 
get lost in the list archives surely isn't dong much, it seems to me.

You mentioned:  "from what I've seen, cryonics people though good folks, 
and smart, are even more fractious than your run-of-the-mill humanity." 
and I ask you, would you include yourself in this?  Do you  include 
everyone on this list in this?  Are you, and everyone else, doing 
anything to try to help out and do more than just be 'fractious'?

I think it's all in the types of organizations that are getting things 
done, as in 'organized religion'.  I, myself, probably due to my Mormon 
heritage, love being a part of and supporting a large organization that 
is really having a large effect on the world.  The only problem for me 
is, that organization tends to be leading us to things like sending our 
loved ones to hell or rotting them in the grave, or worse and other 
nearly as bad things.  I think it is good for people to be fracturous 
and not support any kind of such 'organized religion' that is dragging 
us down, or at best holding us back, like that.

What I believe, is we simply need a better way of managing and 
organizing things, than traditional primitive hierarchies and 'organized 
religions'.  It should be managed from the bottom up, in a crowd sourced 
way, collaboratively emerging from what EVERYONE at the bottom wants 
do.  Not something that repudiates what the people at the bottom want in 
favor of what some sole dirt bag at the top wants.

I think it is all simply a matter of communication.  We've got to find 
out, concisely and quantitatively, in an emergent crowd source way, what 
EVERYONE at the bottom wants and values, and sort all that acordingly, 
to figure out what we should be working on.  And everyone that is 
willing to work on certain tasks, should be able to find one another, 
and work collaboratively.  We're never going to accomplish anything 
significant in this world, like building an HMO, as a 'do it yourself' 
project.  To me, that do it yourself attitude is very antisocial, 
selfish, fruitless - even immoral and evil.

I believe that first and foremost, we've got to communicate, concisely 
and quantitatively, what do we all want, and where are there shared 
wants we can collaboratively develop, together, with all that are 
interested and motivated for such?  I think once we get out of this I"m 
going to do it all myself attitude, or worse, it's not even worth 
trying, and start being willing to work together, then we will be able 
to finally do some much more significant things like creating HMOs.  
We'll be able to save the world.

So, again, I ask everyone.  What are you doing / working on / to help 
out?  Are you willing to try to find others that share your interests, 
and work collaboratively with them, instead of doing it all yourself, or 
just finding longs lists of excuses for not even trying?

Brent Allsop

On 12/25/2010 9:53 AM, Jeff Davis wrote:
> Thanks,
> On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Brent Allsop
> <brent.allsop at canonizer.com>  wrote:
>> Wow Jeff, sounds like some great ideas here.
> Thank you, Brent.
> <snip>
>> Would you care to formalize some of this a bit, and submit it as a starting
>> draft for a new cryonics camp as something we should all or could all be
>> supporting and working on and developing...?
> I'd be pleased to see another cryonics "camp" as you put it, adopting
> a "modernized" approach.  A new organization might have greater
> flexibility to adopt a new approach..  At the same time a new
> organization could escape whatever legacy of bad publicity currently
> "burdens" Alcor and CI. Sort of a "change you can believe in" --
> apologies for using this now-tainted slogan, but you get my point --
> for cryonics.
>>   We can't expect Max to do it all,
> On the one hand, he's in a position to bring about change, on the
> other hand long-term stability and keeping cryonics patients safe is
> an overriding priority, so cryonics organizations are understandably
> cautious/conservative, particularly in a hostile social environment..
>> we've all got to work together, and find out what everyone thinks are
>> the best things we should all be working on, and all work together on all
>> such.
> I agree, but from what I've seen, cryonics people though good folks,
> and smart, are even more fractious than your run-of-the-mill humanity.
>   Frustrating, that.
> Regarding the HMO idea, you don't really have to provide the hospitals
> and doctors -- that could be sub-ed out.  You could simply sell the
> medical insurance, but when you sub out the medical care, they have to
> be medical staff trained and willing to perform the suspensions.
> Patients would then be transferred to long-term patient care (ie
> cryonic storage) facilities.
> Best, Jeff Davis
>               "Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
>                                                       Ray Charles

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