[ExI] Meat v. Machine

Samantha Atkins sjatkins at mac.com
Fri Dec 31 07:26:50 UTC 2010

On Dec 30, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 02:26:31PM -0800, Samantha Atkins wrote:
>> Why should a civilization that can redesign most 
>> any aspect of itself and its surroundings remain 
> Because they're legion. And collectively, they have
> no choice at all.

So you say.  I don't see an airtight argument here.

> Why are you not a billionaire, and not funding your
> own space ventures? In theory, that option is open
> to anyone. In practice, the dice fall decides.
>> darwinian?   Such a civ may have things to do that 
>> it considers more interesting than endlessly expanding 
> Those, who chose to do that, remain at home. They'll
> never get out, and change the face of the universe.
> Only the other ones matter. 

Raw matter and energy acquisition may not be the highest value for such a civ.  I don't know and I don't think you do either. 

>> in space.     It is not terribly likely that another 
>> species in full expansionist mode would have better 
> The expansionists are only a "problem" if you're not
> yet there (so you never come into being) or you're
> not yet expansive. The latter is unlikely, and is
> just tough luck. The pioneers don't know you're there, 
> and they're likely too dumb to do much about it,
> even if they knew.

So I (an advanced civilization) send probes is all direction that are too dumb to even notice much less not wipe out any intelligence species that does not have defenses against them?  Why wouldn't an existing more powerful civilization wipe out or seriously seek to stop such irresponsible and potentially criminal behavior?   Is that kind of behavior what we expire too?  I find such a view quite repulsive.

>> enough technology to be a serious threat.  
> When the pioneer wavefronts clash, they're no danger
> to each other. Even in the successor waves the variation
> is high enough that there's no difference between the
> native and the alien. It's pretty much the same thing.

I am not parsing that.  How can dumb probes designed for maximum expansion not clash with things other than relatively dumb probes?

- samantha

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