[ExI] heaves a long broken psi

Jeff Davis jrd1415 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 24 19:36:20 UTC 2010

On 1/23/10, The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> FWIW, when you are talking about photons even at the other end of the
> physics i.e. special relativity, they don't experince the same 4D space-time
> that we do. Simililar to Serafino's observation, the dimesionality of the
> universe is not increased but is instead reduced.

          (snip crucially on point Lorentz/relativity math)

> Thus in their own
> frames of reference, photons from a source never leave the source, and their
> source and their destination is one and the same. They don't move, because
> they have no space or time with which to move within. They are always in
>  contact in the same point in 2D space at the same instant in time even if
> from the reference frame of slow moving matter their source and destination
> is separated by millions of light-years.

Thank you Stuart.  I spent a couple of hours on my post yesterday, and
just couldn't get to  -- Serafino, is it? -- Serafino's last point
about reduced dimensionality.  So, yes, yes, yes, and thank you for
commenting almost precisely as I had wanted to.

Many years ago I took that ride on a photon, so that I might see what
the photon sees.  And with the help of Herr Lorentz, I "saw" what you
describe.  But, as is so often the case, this "vision" fueled more
questions, in particular one big thorny bad boy -- ie a good one. ...

But... bear with me here for crucial digression...

Yesterday, thinking about the photon ride as I have so often in the
past, I came upon something new.  Originally, the photon ride was
exclusively a thought experiment. It had to be,    ***of course***,
because the photon is massless, and I am not.  But then, yesterday, it
dawned on me -- arising from our recent discussions of mind,
consciousness, and substrates bio and non -- that the "mind" has no
mass (excepting of course like that of the photon, where hv=E=mc*2),
and thus, theoretically, I COULD take that ride.  But then the
questions burst forth.  The pure energy form of mind, unburdened by
the messy massy-ness of its substrate, is so photon-like, that we
might (must?) presume that it penetrates instantaneously to fill the
entire universe.  But wait, on further reflection it seems that it is
already there.  What's more, photon-mounted or not, the mind was and
is always photon-like, and so must ever and always saturate all of
spacetime.   Also, annoyingly, it seems the photon-riding mind cannot
function, because mind is dynamic and needs the passage of time to
proceed from state to state.  So what would be the character of the
photon-riding mind, existing as surely as does the photon, yet
"frozen" out of time?

  Now we see the warring duality of the two frames of reference.  From
the photon-rider's point of view, space is collapsed, time is stopped,
existence is possible, but thinking is not.   While in the 4D view,
everything is schmushed out into our tasty raisin-cake universe, and
the photon and mind are humping right along, with the mind on pause,
its relativistic "clock" slowed to zero at v=c. Yet the mind exists in
both, simultaneously, immune to the contradictions.  So the
contradictions must be illusory, awaiting reconciliation.

I could go on forever, the questions multiply faster than bunnies, but
one overriding question emerges from the mist.

   LET us go then, you and I,	
   When the evening is spread out against the sky	
   Like a patient etherised upon a table;	
   Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,	
   The muttering retreats	
   Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels	
   And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:	
   Streets that follow like a tedious argument	
   Of insidious intent	
   To lead you to an overwhelming question …
   Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”	
   Let us go and make our visit.	

Returning now to our regular programming...

So how can you have a photon in 4D that starts out not existing, is
then created,  transits time and space,  interacts, and then ceases to
exist, while at the same time (ick!)  have the Lorentz-predictive
view, where the photon can't move and is eternal, and have the two be
consistent?  Somethin's gotta give.

The above is a horrifying mish mash and I should just delete it.  But
I'm too lazy.  You can delete it for me.

Enough embarrassment for one day.

Best, Jeff Davis

   Aspiring Transhuman / Delusional Ape   (Take your pick)
                                              Nicq MacDonald

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