[ExI] YES! Hard-core transhumanist splinter groups yearningforcyber-heaven

[Natasha Vita-More]

Nicely said G. 


Natasha Vita-More

-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Giulio Prisco
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:27 AM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] YES! Hard-core transhumanist splinter groups
yearningforcyber-heaven

Hi Bret,

"By saying uploading is feasible, you are essentially agreeing to Dualism in
the mind-body problem"

Not so, quite the contrary indeed.

Wikipedia: "In philosophy of mind, dualism is a set of views about the
relationship between mind and matter, which begins with the claim that
mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)

If mental phenomena are non-physical, they cannot be understood by looking
at the physical brain. In this case uploading, based on scanning the brain
and copying/pasting the information encoded in the brain, would not work.

But if we consider mental phenomena as physical, and the conscious mind as
an emergent property of the brain's physics, then mental phenomena can be
fully understood, reverse engineered, and improved upon by science. In this
case there is no reason (in principle) why uploading should not work.

So, saying uploading is feasible is not agreeing to dualism. On the
contrary, saying uploading is NOT feasible (in principle) IS agreeing to
dualism.

G.

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:04 PM,  <bret at bonfireproductions.com> wrote:
> Quoting Giulio Prisco <giulio at gmail.com>:
>>
>> It is a quick bumper-sticker-like compatibility check: if one 
>> considers uploading as feasible and desirable, (s)he is probably 
>> positively attuned to transhumanism, otherwise (s)he is probably not.
>
>
> Hello all, it was such a pleasure seeing some of you last weekend at 
> the H+ Summit - certainly if you are ever in my backyard again, please
look me up.
>
> On this point, now that I have read the thread. I think it is 
> important to note on what Giulio has said here as something else.
>
> By saying uploading is feasible, you are essentially agreeing to 
> Dualism in the mind-body problem. You may as well have a bumpersticker 
> that says so, since uploading in the you-go-not-a-copy sense is only 
> going to be possible if Dualism is true - correct?
>
> There is a website called commonsensemedia.org that helps parents make 
> decisions on what their kids watch. My kids have not seen the movie 
> "9" yet, in fact I almost wrote a review with the title "WARNING: CONTAINS
DUALISM".
> So there are indeed Transhumanists that think the movement of self is 
> rife with as yet unaddressable issues.
>
> And as far as not adhering to a specific technology, (where my 
> bumper-sticker would just say "I agree with Max") I do implore people 
> to also not attach Transhumanism to any specific spiritual element.
>
> Such an attachment would effectively close the door on the rest of the 
> undecided population that has maybe only heard of Transhumanism 
> peripherally. Although our ideas have not turned them (yet), any 
> spiritual element would be a threat and send them running. One of 
> Transhumanisms strengths is that it is not religious.
>
> ~]3
>
>
>
>
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