[ExI] The atoms red herring. =|

[John Clark]

 Alan Grimes wrote:

> I don't have 1/10^12'th the ego required to assume that the world should
> be converted to computronium, tomorrow [...] I am not so arrogant to assume that computronium will be the most prized substance in the universe. 

Thank you for that information, and I will now return the favor by giving you information about me: I do have sufficient ego to think that matter that reacts in astronomically complex ways, like life or computronium, is more interesting than dead bulk matter. And it's always dangerous to guess what a Jupiter Brain's opinion will be, but I have a hunch He would feel the same way, unless electronic drug addiction proves to be an insurmountable obstacle.   

> And I am not so self-righteous that I can claim that it would be benevolent to forcibly upload anyone. 

I don't claim a Jupiter brain would behave benevolently toward us, I do claim if it is benevolent it will upload us, and if its not then it will obliterate us; expecting it to allow us to continue just as we have and to exist at the same level of reality as its hardware is probably not realistic in any reality. If the Jupiter Brain is really really benevolent and knows you have a superstition against it then when he uploads you he just won't tell you, and all parties walk away from the transaction happy. 

> Here is a list of things wrong with this thread:
> 1. We are not discussing important issues like how to form a coalition
> determined to prevent ALL of the solar system from being turned into computronium.

GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! Tell me again about your lack of ego and lack of arrogance! Do you seriously believe that if you and this list came to some sort of consensus on this issue it would effect a Jupiter Brain's decision on how to engineer the universe?

> I have no objection of any kind to SOME of the solar system being used as computronium, perhaps even one or two full planets

I'm sure a being with the brain the size of a planet and the power to control a supernova will be relieved to know you have consented to allow Him to do that.

> My position has never been that you should not upload. My position
> has always been that I do not want to upload.

As I've said before there is no disputing matters of taste.

> I have done you the courtesy of stating my reasons why, even though I have absolutely no
> obligation to do so, or to defend my reasoning.

Around here you DO have the obligation to defend your reasoning because the first commandment of this list "is thou shall not be dull" and there is nothing duller than somebody just enumerating their superstitions. 
> 
> 
> you continue to harass me about my positions which are self-evident within the ontologies I use to conduct my daily affairs, compounded by the ultimatum "Either choose to upload or we will choose
> for you!".

What's with this "we" business? I have not heard anybody issue an ultimatum to you, I certainly haven't, I just said what will likely happen to you and me if we are very very very very lucky; if we are just very lucky our eventual outcome will be the same as that of many billions of fellow members of our species who lived long before us.  

> My philosophical claim here is that identity is self-evident.

At last you said something I agree with.

> It does not require a soul, it does not require atoms, it does not require patterns

As I've said before you are very clear on what it does not require, but WHAT DOES IT REQUIRE? 

> it exists because it exists

Well I'm glad you cleared that up.

  John K Clark 



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20101120/0e114bad/attachment.html>