[ExI] Electric cars without batteries

[Keith Henson]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 12:08 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
>> ...On Behalf Of Keith Henson
>> ...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car
>>
>> The fourth-generation Chrysler turbine engine ran at up to
>> 44,500 Revolutions per minute (rpm)... The 1963 Turbine's engine generated
> 130
>> brake horsepower (97 kW) and an instant 425 pound-feet
>> (576 N.m) of torque at stall speed...  Keith
>
> Ja.  A lot of what we see proposed today are ideas that have been around for
> a long time, have been tried.  I can see that we aren't talking about the
> same thing here, as shown by the subject line.  What I was thinking was a
> very small turbine, 20kw (roughly 30 horsepower for those who prefer that
> rather absurd unit.)  The turbine does not connect to the rear wheels
> mechanically, but only spins a generator, so this notion would definitely
> require batteries, a lot of heavy and costly batteries actually.  The
> turbine would run at a constant speed and load, so it would go at max
> efficiency, but that means a big heavy noisy gear train.  So it isn't a
> great solution, isn't a breakthrough.

There is really no need for gears.  The power takeoff turbine can spin
at whatever speed you want.

Conceptually, you could replace the engine in a Prius with a turbine.

The problem is, as you mention, that turbines don't do well at fuel
economy run part load.  Automobile applications just can't avoid that,
because the power needed to go up a grade at high speed is a lot
higher than moving around town at low speed.

On the other hand, if you could make a very lightweight unit in the 20
kW range, it would make an interesting addition to a plug in hybrid.
It would run on batteries till the charge ran low and then power up
the turbine at constant power to extend the range and recharge the
batteries.

Your points below are on target.  Big Detroit iron was just plain fun
in the days before electronic ignition.  I fondly remember my second
car, a 57 Pontiac with 347 cubic inches of engine, 10.5 to 1
compression ratio and a carburetor you could drop a half dollar
through and it wouldn't hit anything. It took 100 plus octane leaded
gasoline would do more than 120 mph, how much more I don't know.
Those were the days when a person of reasonable intelligence could
understand the whole power plant in a car.  Now who among us would
know how to set the ignition points dwell or timing?  As for new cars
there is no hope of understanding something with a million lines of
code.

Keith

> Regarding breakthroughs in automotive technology: don't count on it.  That
> is one area that is so well studies by so many professional and amateur
> mechanical engineers, with even impractical designs sometimes used for the
> sake of novelty, there is no reason to expect any revolutionary new idea to
> come along.  The two things that have improved cars in the past, well, my
> lifetime, is introduction of microprocessors and lighter materials.  I can
> extrapolate into the near future, the next decade at least, and confidently
> predict that the coming improvements will be in still more extensive use of
> plastics, composites and better embedded software.
>
> Downer: if we manage to do stuff like electric Detroits with small turbines,
> we will not like the cars.  They will use less fuel perhaps, but will likely
> be less fun to drive than their predecessors.
>
> Those of us who are old enough to remember those old enormous heavy torquey
> Detroit V-8s know that they were not just transportation, but rather they
> were rolling toys.  They had a lot of shiny unnecessary decorative metal
> hanging on them.  Those of us on the losing side of the sexual revolution
> used to have geek orgies in those cars, by stuffing a dozen kids in there
> and groping each other, hoping that one got a handful of the correct gender.
> This was how we nerds entertained ourselves in those uncomfortable years
> after herpes and before computers.
>
> spike
>
>
>
>
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