[ExI] don't let your guard down, not for a minute...

Tim Halterman timhalterman at gmail.com
Fri Sep 10 13:24:07 UTC 2010

2010/9/9 samantha <sjatkins at mac.com>

>  On 9/9/10 6:55 AM, Tim Halterman wrote:
>   Really, what do you make of this?
> No current system is perfect and everlasting, communism, capitalism or
> otherwise.
> Why? What makes them fail?  Are some better than others?  In what ways.

The fact that governance is requried.  As long as there is a human in
authority there will likely be envy and certainly inequality.  This is
imperfect.  And sure I find some better than others.

>   I don't think any system which requires people to do something they
> don't wish or relies on exploiting another being as a permanent solution.
> Laissez faire capitalism requires neither.

I'd say produce or starve is a flaw.  Capitalism requires people to do
something they possibly may not wish to do, or even have the ability to do.

>  These systems are simply biding their time until technology advances to a
> point that a true communism is possible.
> BARF. Communism is utterly broken by design.
>     Communism in that sense being a society where individuals are free to
> do as they wish and do not require the exploitation of others to do so.  I
> think Marx felt this way, although specific quotes elude me (It's been a
> number of years since I read his work).
> That is not communism.  In communism the collective owns everything and the
> individual owns nothing.  "From each according to his ability, to each
> according to his needs" is a common slogan of communism at its most
> idealistic.   That is utterly unworkable.  When everyone owns everything and
> nothing no one has the right to do with anything at all what she wishes.

The ideal communism I speak to does not contain the word "own" nor does it
take anything from each.  And yes I've read Atlas Shrugged.

>  I always looked at the Soviet Union as simply picking a model close to a
> hopeful end-state.  Had technology progressed at a faster rate I'm not sure
> the collapse would have been inevitable, they could have simply evolved.  I
> see the most technologically advanced societies the closest to achieving
> true communism.
> A state that killed tens of millions on its own citizens on purpose is held
> up as an ideal and just before its time?  This is utterly abhorrent.
> - samantha

I'm not going to defend the Soviet Union, that wasn't really my point.  I
will say however that unless you live on another planet we're all pieces on
the same game board.  Until a day comes when not one person goes hungry the
same day a resource is spent on the defense or offense of one nation against
another I'm not going to participate in finger-pointing.  We all pay taxes,
we all own a piece of a gun.

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