[ExI] The Catholic Impact (was Re: Origin of ethics and morals)

[Mirco Romanato]

Il 21/12/2011 09:48, Anders Sandberg ha scritto:
> On 2011-12-21 03:48, John Grigg wrote:
>> We could have a whole separate discussion about how the massive 
>> immigration to Europe of fundamentalist Muslims may be potentially
>>  a very destabilizing thing.

> I am curious as an European where these massive hordes are. They 
> mainly seem to be visible from across the Atlantic.

Maybe people to accustomed to look at the Moon have problem looking for
things near their feet. And it is easier to not see if these people (and
others) are encouraged to segregate themselves.

This is an article from 2010; just last year.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Moralkontroll-i-Oslos-innvandrergater-5314438.html

http://goo.gl/JUY57

* -Many people with minority backgrounds feel pressured by the majority
* population to develop their own community. It is built invisible
* walls between people, who create their own communities with their own
* rules. They prefer to interact with each other and have little
* contact with others, he says.

http://goo.gl/rNtlP

* There, women raped outside of Oslo at night, which robbed men of far
* greater scope. Only the last ten years, more than 4,000 people have
* been robbed in the city center and Greenland police station area,
* most young men.

* - They said that everyone has a right to feel safe, but that they are
* unable to prevent robberies. "We have lost the city," they said. So
* they asked if I could guess how many patrol cars they had out in the
* streets this evening, says Nøstvik.

> [ Basically most European Muslims (~6% of the total population) are 
> moderate, but suffers guilt by association because a few are 
> fundamentalist.

"Moderate" is a tricky concept.
What is the definition of "moderate".
Was Swedish people "moderate" when they forceful sterilized "unfit"
people (often for silly reasons) until the 1970s? And I remember they
started to do so before the Nazi Germans.

Also, "most" is a tricky concept.
Is most what? 90%? 80%? 50%+1? or what?

* The latest WikiLeaks revelation: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back
* killing for Islam and 40% want Sharia law

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html#ixzz1hBHoLrrx

* A survey of 600 Muslim students at 30 universities throughout Britain
* found that 32 per cent of Muslim respondents believed killing in the
* name of religion is justified.

Very moderate indeed.

More young Muslims back sharia, says poll
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/29/thinktanks.religion

In the survey of 1,003 Muslims, ..., nearly 60% said they would prefer
to live under British law, while 37% of 16 to 24-year-olds said they
would prefer sharia law, against 17% of those over 55. Eighty-six per
cent said their religion was the most important thing in their lives.


> Typical outgroup bias ("we are very different individually, but 
> *they* are all the same" - this is of course why Europeans think 
> Americans are religious fundamentalists).


> Surveys show that European Muslims are almost as worried about 
> fundamentalism as non-Muslims 
> http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/07/06/muslims-in-europe-economic-worries-top-concerns-about-religious-and-cultural-identity/

There
> 
are lies, damned lies and statistics.

> http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/21/muslim-western-tensions-persist/

*Muslim and Western publics continue to see relations between them as
*generally bad, with both sides holding negative stereotypes of the
*other. Many in the West see Muslims as fanatical and violent, while
*few say Muslims are tolerant or respectful of women. Meanwhile,
*Muslims in the Middle East and Asia generally see Westerners as
*selfish, immoral and greedy – as well as violent and fanatical.

I feel there is a bit of a contradiction from the first to the second
link. The first "Muslims worry more about economy than religion - like
westerns" is contradicted by the second "However, the latest Pew Global
Attitudes survey finds somewhat of a thaw in the U.S. and Europe
compared with five years ago."

As Islamic extremists declare Britain's first Sharia law zone, the
worrying social and moral implications

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html#ixzz1hBMTp0MM

> but that the real problem might be outsidership and limited economic 
> opportunities causing resentment. Not to mention the blame game of 
> who is responsible for bad things and what ought to be changed.

At the end, it is always about money. Really?
Just give them a good job and they will become like us.
Or just give them money and they will forget you are a

> I am far more worried by big organized mainstream groups like 
> political parties and churches pushing religious and conservative 
> agendas.

Like the Labour in UK?

> Labour threw open the doors to mass migration in a deliberate policy
> to change the social make-up of the UK, secret papers suggest.
> 
> A draft report from the Cabinet Office shows that ministers wanted to
> ‘maximise the contribution’ of migrants to their ‘social
> objectives’.

"Social Objectives" like being re-elected even if the natives stop
voting for them?

They imported their own voters.
Like they did in Holland (until, very recently, the imported voters
started to challenge their masters and tried to elect their
representatives and not some socialist kuffar).

> The number of foreigners allowed in the UK increased by as much as 50
> per cent in the wake of the report, written in 2000. Melting pot:
> Labour's diversity drive is exposed in secret papers
> 
> Melting pot: Labour's diversity drive is exposed in secret papers
> 
> Labour has always justified immigration on economic grounds and
> denied it was using it to foster multiculturalism.
> 
> But suspicions of a secret agenda rose when Andrew Neather, a former
> government adviser and speech writer for Tony Blair, Jack Straw and
> David Blunkett, said the aim of Labour’s immigration strategy was to
> ‘rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of
> date’.
> 
> Read more:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249797/Labour-threw-open-doors-mass-migration-secret-plot-make-multicultural-UK.html#ixzz1hBPaYNoM

Ander, how is going the Arab Spring?
Do you think the Moderate Muslim Brotherhood will respect the Universal
Human Rights charter that not a single Muslim Nation have signed,
preferring the Universal Islamic Human Right charter (aka Shaaria rule
supreme).

Mirco