[ExI] Fermi question, was is a FTL drive a dream . . .

[The Avantguardian]

________________________________
From: Stefano Vaj <stefano.vaj at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ExI] Fermi question, was is a FTL drive a dream . . .

Keith Henson wrote:
>
>Yes, even though Wolfram's argument can be extended to any kind of signalling.
> 
>
>1)  We are the first in our light cone.  This seems really unlikely
>>given the number of stars and probable planets, but someone has to be
>>first, it could be us.  The obvious way to get from star to star is to
>>use light sails and TW lasers.  Such a transport mechanism would be
>>seen as obviously artificial far across the universe.  We don't see
>>it.
>>
>>2)  Something removes intelligences from large scale interaction with
>>the universe.  I have theorized this might be the attractiveness of
>>virtual worlds or perhaps the speed of information propagation.  A
>>million to one speed up would limit interactive communication to a
>>distance much smaller than the earth.
>>
>>3)  Perhaps the most bizarre reason for the Fermi problem is the world
>>as we know it being a simulation.  There are probably ways to test for
>>being in a simulation, but testing ends the simulation (and the
>>universe as we know it) so it might not be something you want to try.

 
>>If you have other ideas, that are not minor variations on these,
>>please mention them.
>>
>I do not really know how to resolve Fermi's paradox. 

 
Try this on for size:
 
4) One or more species "are" (*sigh* relativity) engaging in direct competition for resources i.e. warfare and therefore all their communications are encrypted or otherwise disguised. Think the enigma machine from WWII. 
>The idea that we are the only, or the first, of something disturbs me aesthetically, as the all-too-easy recourse to the anthropic principle in cosmology and physics.

We are not the first, we are the latest, and potentially the last, of a long unbroken thread of life dating back to when the whole universe was a warm wet cosmic soup. Think about it. The universe supposedly started out as a super-dense singularity that inflated through some incredibly hot dense states before settling into the cold vaccuous place we now know and love. Since the universe had to pass at least briefly through a "goldilocks" state in order to get from "there" to "here", it is entirely possible that at some point the entire universe was a primordial soup brimming with life warmed by young stars. A warm wet place just after the formation of oxygen and carbon. Then as the universe continued to expand the soup started drying up. Life became restricted to a fewer and fewer islands of hability that became garden worlds like Earth. As the universe became less and less hospitable, life was forced to become increasingly intelligent in order to
 survive. Ergo metaphyta, metazoa, and locally at least, H. sapiens.
 
This my theory. I call it Panbiogenesis to distinguish it from Panspermia and all anthropic local origin of life theories. It is in priciple testable. If the first extraterrestrial life we discover is a wet carbon-based replicator using sugars and proteins to store and process information, that will be experimental support for Panbiogenesis. 
 
Stefano wrote:
 
>What I tentatively find more persuasive is the idea that we might be too parochial in our view of extraterrestrial "life" or "intelligence". That is, we would recognise it only inasmuch as it is a slightly alterated version of ourselves; same as the AGIs being defined as a Turing-passing emulation. Now, if the space of all possible computations and/or darwinian processes is vast enough, we would be the "only ones" simply in the sense that it would be unlikely that two instantiations bump against each other that be similar enough for our purpose, unless they are deliberately programmed to this effect.

This is a very good point, Stefano. Allow me to demonstrate:
 
Just imagine you do not know the source of these sounds. Which are intelligent communications and which are "natural" noises?
 
http://www.soundsnap.com/node/92759
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C6lymtHG60
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WabT1L-nN-E
 
 
Add to this that the species may be trying to camouflage their communications for security, and you have the perfect recipe for the Fermi Paradox.   
 
 
>As to more massive footprints, I am a member of the Order of Cosmic Engineers, and I like Kardashev's speculations about Type III civilisations like the next guy, but the truth is that even a ton of mass is, well, heavy, and I would not take for granted that most clades quickly end up sculpting for fun the shape of neighbouring galaxies in the shape of their females... :-)

That made me laugh. Thanks. :-)

Stuart LaForge


“Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution." -Clay Shirky