[ExI] free will.

john clark jonkc at bellsouth.net
Tue Dec 27 05:09:49 UTC 2011


On Mon, 12/26/11, Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:

"When I make a decision, I [...]" 

... I make decision X rather than decision Y for a reason and thus it is deterministic, OR I make decision X rather than decision Y for NO reason and thus it is random. The "free will" noise doesn't have anything to do with it.

"I am conscious that I am at a node in the world's timeline where multiple distinct realities can occur."

In other words you don't know what the results of a calculation will be until you've finished the calculation, and the results of that calculation could be unexpected, in other words you can surprise yourself. 

  "It is the CONSCIOUSNESS of this feeling which causes so many people to believe that free will exists."

They are not right about that and neither are they wrong. A burp is neither right nor wrong and neither is the "free will" noise.

"Maybe it is deterministic."

If so then it works by cause and effect, the only alternative is that it does not work by cause and effect, and then it is by definition random. The "free will" noise does not help us contemplate this simple fact.

 "if you truly think that free will is the same as a cow's moo, you are more than misinformed."

So you don't think the human "free will" noise is like a cow's "moo" noise, perhaps you think its more like a ducks "quack" noise.

"You (John K Clark) experience qualia but do not have conscious understanding of it.  You are a zombie"

And so after years of hiding it somebody has discovered my secret, I knew this day would come eventually.

 "if it IS fake, I wouldn't want to tell anyone."

The "free will" noise is not a fake, it's not wrong, even calling it contradictory would be giving it too much credit; "free will" is just a noise made by the mouth that does a excellent job at confusing philosophers and keeping them employed and spinning their wheels.  

 "A society that thinks every human can decide, after all, is what has propelled us so far, to here."

Every computer can decide too, it can decide if a circuit should be on or off and the reason for its decision is based on voltages. A coin can decide also, it can decide to come up heads or tails but unlike the computer circuit the coin makes its decision for no reason at all.

 "It would suck to become a bunch of morose zombie computers"

If they're zombies they can't be gloomy, but I would no more call a intelligent computer a zombie than I'd call a intelligent human a zombie.

  John K Clark  





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20111226/87acda60/attachment.html>


More information about the extropy-chat mailing list