[ExI] Social right to have a living
kellycoinguy at gmail.com
Fri Jun 3 04:06:19 UTC 2011
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Damien Sullivan
<phoenix at ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:42:08AM -0600, Kelly Anderson wrote:
>> I refuse to be responsible for the actions of others, including my
>> ancestors. This is the slave reparations argument, and I don't buy
>> that either. Life is not fair, get over it and move on! The only thing
> A common argument from those who aren't being screwed over by the
Excuse me! Some members of my family were run out of upstate New York,
then Ohio, then they were run out of Missouri at the point of a gun
cabins on fire in the 1840s. They never received one dime of
reparations for their loss, which was considerable. It was legal, in
fact, until the mid 1970s to shoot a Mormon on site in the state of
Missouri. Subsequently, they were chased out of Illinois at the point
of a gun. Again, they lost all of their property. So don't you suppose
that MY family hasn't been screwed by history buddy!!!
Yet, I claim no special benefit from the descendents of the
Missourians. My ancestors picked themselves up, dusted themselves off,
and built civilization in the middle of a desert. (Granted, they did
so to the disadvantage of a few hundred native Americans who were
living a subsistence hunter/gatherer lifestyle in the Salt Lake
valley.) But I would refuse reparations from current day Missourians.
>> that CAN and SHOULD be made fair is that there should be liberty to
>> live one's life according to your own choice. You can't pick the
>> circumstances of your birth, but everything after that should be a
>> choice. Being landless is a minor issue in today's economy in any
> Being landless, yes. Being malnourished, uneducated, or otherwise
> deprived in childhood, OTOH, are rather huge issues.
They can be very big, particularly if they are to the point of brain
damage. I am in support of helping the truly destitute and have given
hundreds of thousands dollars of my own money to help just such people
(when I had it). I just don't want to piss it through the government.
You put a dollar in, and get a dime out. I want greater efficiency
than that for my hard earned money!
>> case. Not having an education is a bigger problem, and I struggle with
>> whether public education should be provided, only insofar as it is an
> I'm glad for that much.
>> > How about profiting from benefits and networking derived from racial
>> > prejudice?
>> You can't legislate your way out of that one. It has to be wrong
> Well, we've legislatively banned hiring and firing based on race. We
> could go further, e.g. by setting up resume bureaus that presented name
> and gender scrubbed resumes to hiring companies, which would help people
> at least get one step further in the process than "this name sound
> black, let's not respond to them".
And that is all WRONG! All that does is further racism by giving
people a good reason to be resentful of others, and it works both
ways. The political class of the United States thrives on creating
division, and if racism were eliminated, they would lose power.
>> Again, I don't like the old boy's network, but it can't be fixed by a
>> political solution. It must be wrong according to the zeitgeist.
> I'm not sure it can't be improved by political solutions. On the stick
> side, requiring/encouraging more documentation and transparency in
> various processes. On the carrot side, providing more opportunities.
> Stuff like helping minorities into Ivy League schools is part of that.
I support the Ivy League schools doing whatever they want in that area
because it's mostly private money.
> And such legal changes can also change the zeitgeist. A lot of the
> decline of racism in the US is probably from the federal government
> cracking down and enforcing civil rights over "states' rights". Chicken
> and egg: there had to be some core of interest in that, but having new
> attitudes written into the law of the land probably helped extend it.
I think the actions of the federal government were partially
instrumental in reducing racism. I grew up in my younger years in the
south, Covington, Georgia to be specific. I went to a public school
where I was in the minority, about 10% of the kids at my elementary
school were white. It was pretty tough.
Later, I moved to Indiana, to a corner of the county where blacks were
not welcome. Despite the county being 35% black, my high school had
only one black student, and he was the son of a doctor.
Subsequently, I have adopted 6 black children and 4 Hispanic children.
I married a Chinese woman and had a half Chinese daughter with her. I
subsequently married a Native American woman (at least she said she
was Native American).
I mention this only to give my credentials as someone who is
interested in and has some experience with racism in America.
Racism is something I care deeply about, as it could affect all of my
children. Today, I think racism in America has much more to do with
attitude than it does with skin color. Oreos (if you will excuse the
expression) do fairly well today here.
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