[ExI] To Max, re Natasha and Extropy (Kevin Haskell)

Kevin Haskell kgh1kgh2 at gmail.com
Sun Jun 26 08:09:34 UTC 2011

 I'll have to limit myself to commenting on just one point here.

> > Would it be fair to say Natasha, that since you do not like the idea of
> the
> > Singularity, that this is the one main area that you are in disagreement
> > with the Extropian ideals?

You seem to hold the mistaken belief that Extropian ideals involve believing
in or seeking a Singularity. That's not the case and never has been. Some
self-identified extropians expect a Singularity, but many of us do not. I've
argued that a Singularity is unlikely several times in both talks and
essays. For instance:


Thank you very much for your clarification and your extremely helpful link.
That chart is fantastic.  It was of great assistance to me in understanding
the differences between "Extropians" and Transhumans when I was discussiong
this with Natasha, and was glad I had that understanding before I responded
to her.

Regarding this part of your article:

"If extreme environmentalists were to have their way, we might see a version
of Full Stop that I call Hard Green (or Green Totalitarianism) come about. A
more voluntarist version of this might be called Stagnant Sustainability,"
you put them in level 2 of "sustainability."

Because of their evident hostility to present technology, to free-markets,
apparent concern for the Earth at the expense of humanity, and in some
cases, outright hostility to humanity's existence, I would put them right
now into level 2 Volantarist/Authoritarian, and then proceeding directly the
level 1 Authoritarian.  They will be the destroyers and death-bringers to
humanity, and they don't care.

Since they are so ensconced in our politics and memetics around the world,
and behind their efforts are great amounts of power, money, and numbers of
people, for these reasons, I consider them the clearest and most dangerous
menace that supporters of Extropy and/or Transhumanism face today, and in
the coming decades.

These are the worst of the "Terrans" that de Garis spoke about.  I call them
Gaians, because this is the largest, most powerful, most focused and
organized of the Terrans so far. They are at war with people seeking real
improvements, and hide their motives behind "future" promises of new
technologies, but doing so somehow by shutting down present energy
technologies in the process.  "Global Climate-Change" is their number one
war-cry, among many others.

Those leading the Gaian charge know they are phoney about their true
intentions, and are manipulating the world's populations.

In your article in the link that you provided, you wrote:

>"As a transhumanist, I’m especially interested in the difference between
the >Singularity and what I call the Surge. In other words, scenarios 9 and
10 >compared to 7 and 8,"

but above, you stated you don't believe the Singularity will occur, which
means levels 4 and 5 of both varients are out for you. Your article does say
things could stand in the way, but did not indicate you didn't believe the
Singularity 'would' happen.

So, if don't believe in the Singularity happening, where would you list
yourself as being? It would have to fall somewhere between levels 1 and 3,
within the Voluntarest or the Authoritarian camps.

Regarding Natasha, I'm not clear because, while she said friendly AI is
unlikely, she does believe the Technological Singularity will happen

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