[ExI] Brief correction re Western Democracies [WASI am Call To Libertarians]

[Kelly Anderson]

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Rafal Smigrodzki
<rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Damien Sullivan
> <phoenix at ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'm a bit bemused by the libertarian enthusiasm for private toll roads.
>> I mean, yes, it's a way to get roads built, but is a society full of
>> piecemeal tolls, and possibilities to be denied passage by a road owner
>> whod oesn't like you, actually desirable?  How does an economy of tolls
>> everywhere compare to that of a free travel zone?
>
> ### If the owner of all roads doesn't like you, where will you go? On
> the other hand, if the owner of one road doesn't like too many people,
> he will soon run out of toll money.

Can you think of a current toll road/bridge/whatever that denies
passage to some people other than on the basis that they can't or
won't pay? What makes you think that this would happen in reality? It
seems pretty easy for the government to regulate toll roads to the
extent that they are not able to discriminate on any basis other than
something legitimate, like being overweight, over-sized, unpaid,
criminals, or possibly a few other things I haven't thought of.

Tolls everywhere is freedom, not free. A free travel zone, by which I
assume you mean our current "free" highways, is not free, NOR is it
freedom. It is government seized land, built into a highway with
government seized money, and even they deny passage to some traffic,
such as overweight trucks. (I don't necessarily object to the
government seizing land for the building of highways under some
circumstances, but eminent domain is one area where the government
often over reaches.)

I would not have supported toll roads everywhere ten years ago, but
now we have the technology to do this painlessly and anonymously (or
not, at the driver's choice) it seems like a no brainer to me.

I think the reason libertarians talk about toll roads so much is
because it is easy to see how it would work, since some roads already
work that way. It is a short step from current reality to something
that is both truly libertarian and easily understandable. It is fair,
because the roads are worn out by use, so a usage tax either in tolls,
or in gasoline tax, is fair.

Paying for roads with income tax means the taxation is disconnected
from the use. Most Americans aren't against taxes, but they are
generally against unfair taxes. Why, for example, are schools
generally paid for with property taxes? What the heck does owning
property have to do with educating the public? How are those related?
What happens when the government confiscates hundreds of thousands of
acres of previously taxed land, and turns it into a national
wilderness area that is no longer taxed and everyone else has their
property taxes go up to make up the difference. <cynical>(Not that
this would EVER happen in the real world.)</cynical>

Paying for schools with lotteries is less offensive to many
libertarians because it is a voluntary tax. In truth it is a
regressive tax on the poor and those who are poor at math, but it is
voluntary. So the lottery is a lot like drugs and prostitution from
the libertarian standpoint. It should be allowed, but most of us
recognize that it is a poor personal choice to participate.

Do things need to be paid for? Yes. We libertarians recognize that.
The question is how does it get paid for, and by who? Does the way the
tax money is spent relate in some way to the way the taxes are
collected? Should some things be paid for with some other mechanism
rather than taxation? Is there a way for people to opt into paying for
something? If so, that is preferable to taxation.

The mechanism of a usage tax (toll/gas tax) for roads is extremely
logical. I think it would also contribute to something that many
(particularly the left and the greens) would like to see, actual
conservation. Imagine that gasoline cost $11 a gallon because you were
paying for road repairs through a usage tax, and you were also paying
for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as the military bases in
the middle east directly at the pump. Also, you are paying for carbon
dioxide sequestration, because you are paying for your pollution
mitigation. How fast do you think we would have workable electric cars
in such a case? I believe that we should pay ALL the costs of gasoline
at the pump, instead of at tax time. That way, we create the incentive
to do things properly. But no, instead, we provide incentives for oil
companies. We provide incentives for farmers to use petroleum based
fertilizers. It's really madness and slow national suicide.

-Kelly