[ExI] More information, technical and otherwise, about paleo diet and life

[J. Stanton]

Max More wrote:

> One issue I'd like to hear your view on (if you haven't expressed it
> in the links I'll be working through...) is how protein is optimal.
> Gedgaudas suggesting limiting protein to what seem to me low levels
> (the RDA of 46 to 53g, no more than 60 to 70g for large, highly
> physically active people). If one is eating almost no carbs and only
> a small amount of protein, that means the great majority of calories
> will come from fat. I'm not sure how you would eat that much fat
> without also eating more protein. I'm not going to eat lots of
> spoonsful of coconut oil...

It sounds like Gedgaudas is coming from the same place as the Perfect 
Health Diet folks, who recommend a relatively low protein diet on the 
theory that protein beyond the biologically necessary intake will simply 
be converted to glucose, and further, that some amount of protein 
restriction leads to beneficial autophagy (i.e. it's like caloric 
restriction, but without the misery).

There is also the satiation/protein leverage hypothesis:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=2046

Personally, I pay little attention to the macronutrient ratio of my 
diet, on the theory that avoiding gluten/n-6 fats/fructose is far more 
important than anything else.  But I find a high-fat diet to be far more 
tasty and satiating.  It took me about a day to shift from "Ew, that's 
got a lot of fat on it" to "Mmmm, fat!"

As far as dietary fat sources:
-Untrimmed steaks and meat. There's a lot of fat that normally gets 
thrown away. And if I'm stuck with a lean cut in a fried dish I'll add 
extra beef tallow.
-I also have a mini deep-fryer full of tallow, for the best potato chips 
EVER.
-I eat a lot of eggs.
-Refined coconut oil is great because it doesn't taste like coconuts at 
all. (I still use cold-pressed, not RBD oil)
-Few things taste worse with added butter.
-I break the rule "don't drink calories" because I'm trying to keep 
weight on, not lose it, and I seem to tolerate lactose.  Half and half 
is delicious.  So is full-fat Greek yogurt.  (Interestingly, I don't 
find myself craving cheese now that I'm getting plenty of fat from other 
sources.)
-Thai curries are delicious, and entirely based on coconut cream.  Note: 
the curry paste at your local Asian market will be dramatically better 
than the "Thai Kitchen" stuff in the supermarket.

I'm probably still somewhat higher-protein and lower-fat than the 
Gedgaudas/PHD recommendations...but as I said, I don't worry about it 
much.  I have the strange idea that our bodies have been shaped by 
millions of years of evolution to crave the nutrients we need, so long 
as we don't allow ourselves the Neolithic processed foods that trigger 
drug-like highs (e.g. grains and sugars).  Even butterflies know to lick 
water off of mineralized rocks.

>> -Dr. Mary Enig's "Know Your Fats", if you're still scared of saturated
>> fat or want to know the biochemistry
>>
> Is that to be preferred to her more recent book, Eat Fat, Lose Fat?

I believe so.  "Know Your Fats" is basic biochemistry, and much better 
for understanding the underlying issues.  EFLF is a diet book with 
recipes and some background information.  Note that KYF is somewhat 
expensive ($30) and may therefore be worth finding through a library.

> Actually I was relating what Cordain says in his paleo principles, not
> necessarily agreeing with them.

Point taken.

Again, all respect to him for being one of the pioneers, back when the 
entire concept was a fringe activity.  And he's co-authored a recent 
paper which is basically "Origins and evolution of the Western diet, 
2011 edition" in which he moderates his anti-SFA stance somewhat.

But there are a lot of copies of "The Paleo Diet" out there, and my 
opinion is that trying to eat low-fat "paleo" is the primary cause of 
being unable to stick with it....particularly for active people.  You 
get protein-satiated and simply don't eat enough calories, leading to 
being hungry, miserable, and falling off the wagon.

JS
http://www.gnolls.org