[ExI] Iain M Banks' Culture Novels [WAS Re: Usages of the term libertarianism]

[Stefano Vaj]

On 23 May 2011 01:55, Richard Loosemore <rpwl at lightlink.com> wrote:

> Stefano Vaj wrote:
>
>> Hence, given that human beings currently do have mixed motives, and happen
>> sometimes to be happy, sometimes to be frustrated by their being sacrificed
>> for non-hedonistic purposes, ordinary human reproduction is basically
>> unethical.
>>
>
> Non sequiteur.


Let us see:
a) Slavery is unethical
b) Those who are hard-wired for motivation to serve are not slaves
c) Human clones conditioned to serve would have in fact mixed motivations
d) Producing somebody with mixed motivations would be unethical since (b)
would not apply, and their wish to serve would therefore have thus to be
frustrated.

Reduction ad absurdum:
e) Since humans have as well mixed motivations, and they may will wish to
serve higher purposes (or a master) their (re)production is unethical.

Not true.  I am talking about "slaves" that either do, or do not, have the
> intrinsic mental machinery required to experience desires that conflict with
> a subservient desire.
>

Curious POV. What is the ethical difference whether such machinery does not
exist or is simply permanently impaired for good? Not to mention the
difficulty of drawing a line between the two... Aristotle maintains in fact
that slaves by nature never have a "real" inclination to freedom in the
first place.

And for that matter that yearning for freedom is *not* a inescapable feature
of mammal psychology, which could by no means whatsoever be genetically and
educationally removed, is abundantly shown by the fact that most dogs do not
spend most of their time planning an escape.

>In conclusion: is it possible today to have slaves who would not be such
> according to your restrictive definition (what Aristotles call "slaves by
> nature" as opposed to "slaves by convention")? Yes, and it is even quite
> easy.
> There is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that statement.


Sounds really like saying that there is no scientific evidence that humans
exist who are actually willing to suicide. Perhaps all of them are
constrained by some evil spirit.

But I appreciate that slavery *and* good conscience in a PC sense is an
alluring proposition...

-- 
Stefano Vaj
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