[ExI] Small scale solar payback time (was Re: Planetary defense)

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 06:37:05AM -0700, spike wrote:

> Indeed?  NIMBYism is the realest form of environmentalism, the kind that has

NIMBYism isn't environmentalism. 

> the most political muscle behind it.  I see that as the best argument for
> solar coal to octane installations.  You can put it waaaay the hell and gone

I'm afraid it's dead, Jim

http://www.theoildrum.com/files/possiblecoalproduction.gif

> out in the middle of where it will not bother anyone.  We don't need to
> build long transmission lines, and can use existing highways to transport
> the resultant liquid fuels to the money.

Or you could make methane from CO2 and hydrogen, and use the existing
natural gas infrastructure. Or use other, C1-derived liquid fuels
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Oil-Gas-Methanol-Economy/dp/3527324224/
 
> We have all this existing infrastructure for burning octane, so like it or

And methane. And butane, propane. And diesel.

> not, octane must come from somewhere for a long time to come.  For all its
> faults, the stuff does have its advantages for transportation and industrial
> uses.  We are good at using it.  We can put PVs on rooftops to help start a
> long transition to mostly electric transportation and domestic HVAC.  Food

It can be quite quick, particularly for short commuters. In the U.S. 10%
of commuters could be electric, probably more in Europe (where many already
commute by electrified rail and subway).

> production will be petrochemical based for a long time to come.  I can

Most of the fossil input is methane to make hydrogen for Haber-Bosch, so
substituting water electrolysis by peak PV surplus would be straightforward.
Ditto adding some 5% of hydrogen to the edge of residential natural
gas network. Anaerobic digesters could cover probably up to 20%.

> imagine solar powered coal to octane and coal to Diesel being big players in
> the next decade.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE