[ExI] riots again

[PJ Manney]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Jeff Davis <jrd1415 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:58 AM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Davis <jrd1415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
>                  - Samuel P. Huntington
>
>> "in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance.
>
> In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years
> of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
>>
>>            - Orson Welles
>
>
> These competing quotes then is your distillation of the argument?  Fine.
>
> What did the Swiss produce?  Five hundred years of democracy and
> peace.  Five hundred years without warfare, terror, murder, and
> bloodshed.
>
> ***AND*** they produced the cuckoo clock to celebrate the minutes and
> hours of their magnificent accomplishment.
>
> And Welles, the narcissistic, over-achiever with the Randian ethics of
> a spoiled two-year old got it wrong.  It wasn't the Borgias that
> generated those accomplishments -- the Renaissance in particular.  It
> was the money generated by the trade in silk and spices.

The film geek in me must protest.

Welles only said the above quote in the context of his
characterization of Harry Lime, the villain in the classic film, The
Third Man.  While he did ad lib the line (there was the need for an
extra 'beat' in the scene written by Graham Greene), Welles later said
he cribbed the concept from one, or possible two plays he had read.
But it would be a sentiment that Harry Lime believed.  Not Welles
(raving narcissist though he was).  Later, the Swiss schooled Welles
on his line, explaining that they neither made Cuckoo Clocks (the
Germans did) and historically had the most fearsome military and
mercenary force in Europe at the time.  There's a reason the popes
have been guarded by Swiss Guards since the 15th C.

More interesting to me is how The Third Man is a compelling example of
both sides of the "US intervention as destructive/constructive force"
argument.  Harry Lime and the hero, Holly Martins, represent their
belief systems quite nicely.  It's also one of the best movies ever
made, so if you haven't seen it, do take the time.

However, those who quote lines like these as proof of anything must
realize that just because someone said it, doesn't make it true.
Don't they?

PJ