[ExI] Fermi's Paradoxical Politburo

[Dan]

On Friday, March 15, 2013 3:03 PM BillK <pharos at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>> Amish show some selective adoption of technology, and of course
>> not everybody returns back into the fold after rumpschpringe,
>> though most do.
>>
>> No population of agents can be uniform, and no policy can
>> be 100% enforced. As such sustained containment is arbitrarily
>> improbable, especially across population of populations with
>> no common point of origin, across deep time.
>
> The laws of physics are 100% enforced.
> 
> Populations reach size limits where various adventures just
> become too expensive for the group to fund. Even feeding the
> population in some cases. Interstellar travel is one of the most
> expensive projects and requires very large group support.

It seems you're presuming that all of society has to fund and support such efforts. Why? Why might not, in human or non-human societies, some groups fund them separate from the rest? The Amish model on Earth now, too, seems to be that the wider society does what it does -- tech advances, global economy, etc. -- but the Amish live separately. Yes, they do interact, but my guess is, for the most part, they're decoupled. Why would it not be similar with ET civilizations?

And why not totally separate societies? Imagine, say, the Singularity doesn't hit for a few more decades. It seems humans are now starting to ramp up human space presence. Let's say that starts to take off with, before the Singularity happens, many communities living off world and, given the popular model for things like Mars settlement, these communities are fairly self-sufficient. If they are able and decide to not join in the fun on Earth, why might they not continue their outward expansion?

> The way round that objection is to claim that after the
> Singularity nano-Santa will provide unlimited resources to
> all sizes of populations. But the implications........ 
> Everyone from Hells Angels to Al-Qaeda has unlimited resources!
> The Singularity will be a big upheaval, perhaps the destruction
> of humanity if that route is followed.

This was kind of covered on another list with discussions of hyperaggression. It's all the more reason to get some communities off world -- maybe to practice superstealth to avoid such groups or to avoid nation states similarly armed and willing to suppress dissent and difference of any sort. (The superstealth explanation has been offered as a solution to the Fermi Paradox too: ET societies are out there, but they keep to themselves and remain hidden to avoid any hyperaggressive groups. Someone likened this to an explanation why, when you're hiking in the woods, you rarely see other animals: they're hiding from predators or they are predators making sure their prey doesn't know where they are.)

> Survival may only be possible by forming some kind of hive-mind
> and ruthlessly incorporating outsiders. 
> Resistance is futile!  ;)

Or to try to remain hidden. I'm not saying I buy all this. The simpler explanation for lack of ET after all this time might be there simply are none. Hey, what's the large cigar-shaped object over me now?!

Dan
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