[ExI] Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox

[Andrew Mckee]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:35:00 +1200, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> If the first law of thermodynamics is correct then the amount of energy
> emitted from a Dyson sphere into space would be equal to the amount of
> electromagnetic energy the naked star would have emitted if the sphere  
> were
> not there. And if the second law of thermodynamics is correct then the
> frequency of those emitted electromagnetic waves will be shifted downward
> from visible light and ultraviolet into the infrared, or perhaps even  
> more
> into microwaves.
>
> Incidentally if there were one of our laws of physics that I think even a
> civilization a billion years more advanced than ours would find just as
> true as we do it would be the second law of thermodynamics. The first  
> law,
> the conservation of energy, is just a empirical observation, we've never
> seen it violated and use induction to conclude that we never will. But  
> the
> second law is not like that, the second law is based on logic. In every  
> one
> of Everett's Many Worlds where 2+2 is still equal to 4 the second law  
> holds
> true.

I'm sure you're right, so far as we know.
I just wonder if some really advanced civilizations might discover a  
wrinkle or two that enables them to  develop technologies that to us, seem  
to violate our known scientific laws.

>> Maybe dark matter is Dyson spheres whose inhabitants have figured out
>> perfect or near perfect complete thermal management


> We know very little about Dark Matter but one thing we do know is that it
> doesn't interact with electromagnetic waves, that's why it's so hard to
> detect.

Not to gleefully jump from the frying pan into the fire...

But I'd reply that some would say Dark Matter and Dark Energy are really  
hard to detect because they are just huge fictional fudge factors added to  
prop up a seriously broken gravitational universe model that bore  
absolutely no resemblance to what the observable universe is actually  
doing.

Well, others may say that, I on the other hand, couldn't possibly comment.  
:-)