[ExI] Global cooling: Arctic ice caps grows by 60% against global warming predictions | Mail Online

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Wed Sep 11 19:37:00 UTC 2013

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:23:58AM -0600, Kelly Anderson wrote:
> > You're still not getting it.
> I thought you were taking a break.

Hey, beats virtualizing braindead hosts.
> > The falling EROEI *accelerates*
> > the use of tight resources, because the net energy is falling
> > per unit of effort, so you have to increase the effort, as
> > long as the financials and thermodynamics allow it. Only
> > then you stop. (Unless population drops very suddenly,
> > which is an even worse outcome).
> >
> I'm not interested in doom and gloom. I'm interested in solutions. Your

I'm very interested in solutions. But they start with people accepting
that there is a problem. Even on this list, the ostrichs are in the
vast majority. Out there, the situation is a lot worse. Most
of the 7 billion have no clue at all. 

Solutions are useless if people are not ready to accept
them as such. We're not nearly there yet, here.

> solution matrix seems to rule out most of the most practical energy
> sources. I'm for solar, but it only has limited practical applications at
> present.

I disagree very much. For most people on this list PV is
is a very affordable way to shave off the bulk of your
electricity bill, or to allow you to live off-grid, which
vastly enhances your exit options. Bootstrap is a process
that profits from economies of scale. Why is solar so 
expensive in the sunny US versus the low-flux Germany?
Because it takes a decade to build the market.
Don't waste another decade. You can't afford the price.
> > The course of global warming is graven in stone. Not a damn
> > thing can be done about it at this point, especially now that
> > we have multiple feedback mechanisms kicking in.
> >
> Then let's please stop talking about it.

I certainly haven't started with it. I had to react to a
yet another red herring, that the CO2 emission problem
is solvable. No, it isn't. Not anymore. You made this
pie, it tastes terrible, but you have no eat it all up now.
No other options. We done screwed up, we pays the price.
> > People should not spend synapseseconds on preventing the
> > CO2 release, but how to mitigate the impact of increased
> > CO2, which is not just about climate.
> >
> I like building buildings out of CO2. Stuff like this:
> http://bit.ly/15SAPjg
> Seems like a reasonably good idea in principle, even if this particular
> solution has problems to be worked out. Concrete is a large contributor to
> atmospheric CO2, I'm sure you knew that.

I would be looking into geopolymers, and in just low-embedded-energy
structures in general. You have to crunch the numbers whether a steel
frame house with glass foam/carbon insulation is going to ROI over a 
cob construction, or some advanced low-tech things I've seen on a 
certain subreddit.
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