[ExI] Black hole brains (was Re: taxonomy for fermi paradox fans)

John Clark johnkclark at gmail.com
Tue Feb 24 03:08:54 UTC 2015

On Mon, Feb 23, 2015  Flexman, Connor <connor_flexman at brown.edu> wrote:

> Perhaps the time period between a civilization developing recursively
> self-improving general AI and its subsequent development of computronium is
> relatively short compared to geologic time scales. Computronium, being the
> maximally optimized medium for computation, quickly saturates the
> Beckenstein bound

Computronium uses Nanotechnology and makes uses parts of about 10^-9 meters
length (that's about 10 atoms in length). For the Beckenstein bound to
become relevant the parts would have to approach the Planck length of 10^
-35 meters, that's a 100 million billion billion shorter with a million
trillion trillion trillion
trillion trillion trillion times less volume. Nanotechnology would require
no new discoveries in fundamental physics just improvements in technology,
but building machines at the Planck scare would require new physics and as
far as we know now can't be done. The Beckenstein bound is important if you
want to talk about Black Holes but not for much else.

 John K Clark

> of their region of space-time by being so information dense. This causes
>> their space-time to warp to the point of pinching itself off, forming an
>> event horizon around them. This effectively renders the civilization a
>> black hole to those observers still in comparatively flat space-time
>> meaning that since no information can escape the event horizon, no
>> civilization outside the black hole can detect the civilization inside the
>> black hole.
>> Meanwhile, inside the black hole, the post-singularity civilization
>> effectively exists in its own universe, with mass-energy and information
>> continually pouring in from the outside. Thus, limited perhaps to
>> competition between like civilizations, the civilization in question can
>> grow to massive proportions becoming a Kardeshev scale type 3 civilization,
>> controlling their galaxy by becoming the billion solar mass black hole
>> galactic nucleus. Thereby secretly ruling a galaxy without ever leaving
>> home.
> I think the downside to this proposal is that inside a black hole's event
> horizon, all paths through spacetime point radially inward. Then not only
> would they only be able to receive information from the outside world but
> not give any, but they also would only be able to receive information from
> people outside their radial distance, and not communicate information back
> out to them.
> Also note that present consensus generally seems to favor that information
> can indeed leave the event horizon, for information is not destroyed.
> Anyone with better knowledge of information theory than I have: what is
> the relationship between computronium, the Bekenstein limit, and black
> holes? Are all three reached at the same point? Don't other limits to
> computation halt the amount of information we can cram into computronium
> before we reach the Bekenstein limit and create a black hole?
> Connor
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