[ExI] [tt] Identity thread again

Tara Maya tara at taramayastales.com
Tue Mar 24 15:45:30 UTC 2015

If the technology exists to create copy-clans, then they will evolve, regardless of whether others try to stop them; it would like being trying to stop the printing press. Many countries and religions (for instance, the Catholic Church) tried to outlaw it, but all it did was drive the printing press underground in those nations. 

There are two causes of altruism: genetic similarity and reciprocity. Currently, the most altruistic of human relations are within immediate families. A parent will die for a child, a brother will die for a brother.  Extremely close relations of reciprocity (friendship) can also inspire high levels of reciprocity. To make such self-sacrifice for a stranger, humans must expect to receive compensation (another form of reciprocity), like payment and honors to soldiers, that will benefit themselves or their family.

Individual members of copy-clans could potentially be much more altruistic toward each other than even parents/children/brothers/sisters. Copy-clans would have not merely genetic similarity but genetic identity, so there would be an evolutionary reward for individual members who were completely self-sacrificing for the good of the clan. For the first time, there would be a society where communism could actually work. 

Relations between copy-clans however, would still have to be governed by reciprocity, or in other words, capitalism… or else by the only historically known alternative to capitalism besides family: predation (conquest, genocide, slavery). There is no REASON that multiple copy-clans should not co-exist peacefully with one another in a capitalist, democratic society, but not all humans are reasonable, and I predict that some would make one (or both) of two mistakes. 

1.)  To resort to predation rather than reciprocity as the approach to relations between copy-clans or between homo sapiens and copy-clans
2.) To attempt to impose on all copy-clans or on all copy-clans and on homo sapiens the same system of absolute altruism (i.e. communism) as operates within one copy-clan but which could never work between genetically non-identical copy-clans or individuals. The attempt to impose such altruism where there is evolutionary resistance to it would then break down into predation. (As it did in communist states.)

Therefore it is likely, though very sad and unnecessary, that the existence of copy-clans would lead to war. You can’t introduce an essentially new species of sentient beings into an ecology that so far has only supported one without there being a contest for resources. If we had the ability to populate new areas, in space, or perhaps new nations in sea-steads or something, maybe that contest could be postponed by expanding the ecological niche.

Tara Maya
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> On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:18 PM, Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com> wrote:
> ### Why would anybody want to go to war with me? I pay my bills, I don't take what's not mine, and I don't vote. Why would anybody go to war with more me's? Mere act of copying wouldn't mean I would start stealing. I would only copy myself if I had enough resources to support more of myselves. Just today my agent joked she'd like to clone me so she could send me to more hospitals simultaneously (I am booked till December and some of my old clients are clamoring to get me back). Little did she know how close to the truth she was.
> I would predict that jerks will try to build hierarchical hives of crippled sub-selves and twisted, stolen copies of others, driven by mad ambition and fear. Morally neutral persons like me (I am not good, but then I am not evil either) will build large, happy families. Traditionalists will just vote for a Clinton or a Bush, forever. We'll see who wins.

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