[ExI] Universal timeless principles

[BillK]

On 3 October 2015 at 11:03, Anders Sandberg  wrote:
> On 2015-10-02 17:12, William Flynn Wallace wrote:
>> Anders says above that we have discovered universal timeless principles.
>> I'd like to know what they are and who proposed them, because that's
>> chutzpah of the highest order.  Oh boy - let's discuss that one.
>
>
> Here is one: a thing is identical to itself. (1)
> Here is another one: "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity
> and rights." (2)
> Here is a third one: "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at
> the same time, will that it should become a universal law." (3)
>
<big snip>
>
> [ Do I believe in timeless principles? Kind of. There are statements in
> physics that are invariant of translations, rotations, Lorenz boosts and
> other transformations, and of course math remains math. Whether physics and
> math are "out there" or just in minds is hard to tell (I lean towards that
> at least physics is out there in some form), but clearly any minds that know
> some subset of correct, invariant physics and math can derive other correct
> conclusions from it. And other minds with the same information can make the
> same derivations and reach the same conclusions - no matter when or where.
> So there are knowable principles in these domains every sufficiently
> informed and smart mind would know. Things get iffy with values, since they
> might be far more linked to the entities experiencing them, but clearly we
> can do analyse game theory and make statements like "If agent A is trying to
> optimize X, agent B optimizes Y, and X and Y do not interact, then they can
> get more of X and Y by cooperating". So I think we can get pretty close to
> universal principles in this framework, even if it turns out that they
> merely reside inside minds knowing about the outside world. ]
>


Physics and Science change over time. Until we know everything change
will continue.
Before the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics, science thought
it had found universal principles.

Re philosophical principles, if even philosophers can't agree among
themselves can they really be called universal timeless principles?
Certainly all the followers of various holy books and ethical systems
will not agree with the suggested universal principles. The search for
universal principles may not be successful but it is useful in
providing some sort of guidance in human affairs.

Though humans being what they are, they can always find reasons to
make exceptions to applying their favourite universal principle. As
the saying goes, 'Every man has his price'. (Not always money, of
course).

BillK