[ExI] Cramer on impossibility of FTL communication

John Clark johnkclark at gmail.com
Wed Sep 2 17:06:48 UTC 2015

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015  Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:

> ​> ​
> But you're not really transferring anything.
> ​You're transferring an

​influence ​but not any information because I have no control over what my
coin does, all that happens is that the distant guy produces the same
random sequence of coin flips as I do, and that's not good enough to send a

> ​> ​
> You weren't sure what state that far away photon was in.  Now you are.
> ​If I flip my coin ​and get tails I immediately know that the owner of the
other entangled coin also got tails when he flipped
​his coin ​
even if he's a billion light years away, and he
 I got tails too, but that's all we know
is of little use.

> ​> ​
> But it was in that state all along.
> ​Maybe. That's called realism, the idea that things are in a definite
state even if they have not been measured. Another property is locality,
the idea that the future can not change the past and distance diminishes
the strength and speed of an effect. The third is determinism. We know from
experiment that Bell's inequality is violated therefore we know for a fact
that AT LEAST one of the following must be untrue:

1) Realism
2) Locality
3) Determinism

I'd like all three but if I had to give up one of them (and I do) I'd give
up determinism, to my mind it would be the least disturbing, and giving up
reality would be the most disturbing; but the universe may not agree with
me so for all I know all 3 may be false.

  John K Clark ​

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20150902/d91382a2/attachment.html>

More information about the extropy-chat mailing list